Need assistance with Frost Mage

[Jeremy]

I'm having trouble deciding on a build for my Frost Mage and was looking for some input. I posted up on another board but don't seem to be receiving much response so I thought I'd try over here.

Is Complete Arcane's Warmage base class a good match for the Frost Mage in Frostburn? I was thinking of playing an exiled Frost Mage from the mysterious land of Frostfell in Eberron but as I have to start at first level, the class I use to get to Frost Mage is more important than normally.

If it's important, it's pretty low ability scores at 25 point buy. I've got access to pretty much all books, but as it is Eberron, Forgotten Realms stuff is discouraged (but I imported Artificer for them, so maybe they'll stretch for me).

Anyways, with all the cold magic feats human seemed a good idea, and I can take a flaw for another feat. Also, I can have the spellgifted trait (-1 caster level to one school, +1 caster level to another).

Any ideas for a build here? Or links to a couple good ones? Or plain reasons for or against starting as a warmage?

Here's how I see it. Opinions?

Sorcerer:
Pros - spontaneous casting (excellent for blasters), access to all schools of magic, +1 to cold DC's
Cons - little effect until 12th level and the game starts at first, not done with feats until 15th, delayed spell progression, skill prereq's cross class

Spellgifted
1: Draconic Heritage
1: Draconic Power
1: Snowcasting
3: Eschew Components
6: Frozen Magic
9: Cold Spell Specialization
12: Elemental Spellcasting [Cold]
15: Spell Thematics
18: Cold Focus

+7 Caster Level to Thematic Cold Subtype Evocations cast in -20 degree weather (via control temperature)

Evoker:
Pros - faster caster level escalation, higher total caster level, wider repetoire for cold immune and high SR/Saves opponents, class skill access to prereq's, one bonus feat
Cons - two entire schools of magic banned, prepared spells means less magic to bring to bear due to prepared non-offensive spells that may not see use

Spellgifted
Energy Affinity (Cold)
1: Snowcasting
1: Elemental Spellcasting [Cold]
1: Spell Thematics
3: Frozen Magic
5: Quicken Spell
6: Cold Spell Specialization
9: Eschew Components
12: Cold Focus

+8 Caster Level to Thematic Cold Subtype Evocations cast in -20 degree weather (via control temperature)

Warmage:
Pros - spontaneous caster, access to all schools, INT to spell damage, possible entrance to dragonslayer/spellsword for free goodies, armored casting
Cons - lower caster level could easily negate INT to spell damage, extremely limited spell list

Spellgifted
1: Snowcasting
1: Eschew Components
1: Elemental Spellcasting [Cold]
3: Frozen Magic
6: Cold Spell Specialization
9: Spell Thematics
12: Extra Edge
15: Cold Focus

+6 Caster Level to Thematic Cold Subtype Evocations cast in -20 degree weather (via control temperature)

 

[kjenks]

For a blaster sorc or warmage, try Arcane Spell Preparation and Quicken Spell. Also Twin Spell or Repeat Spell. These feats give you more blasting power faster at level 10+.

 

[smootrk]

Look into also the Energy Substitution (cold) feat from Complete Arcane. It allows for cold versions of any energy spell. Frost Ball (fireball), Melf's Cold Arrow, etc.

It is handy. For a sorcerer, it greatly expands his spell options.

 

[Jeremy]

Don't know if I'll have enough feats for either of those three gems. But thankfully snowcasting with eschew components will allow me to make any energy spell I cast have the cold subtype (even if it does fire damage) so I can have some of the benefits of Energy Substitution. And Thematics will have all the spells looking appropriate.

Snowcasting is a prereq so I'd have it anways.

But which build to go with? Or what tweaks to make?

 

[kjenks]

But which build to go with? Or what tweaks to make?

Work up four different builds then have an arena fight. Try build 1 vs. monster, build 1 vs. build 2, build 2 vs. build 3, etc. Choose a monster whose CR = character level. Figure out which works best in combat.

Then try same battle, giving yourself two friends, a fighter and a cleric. Build 1 + fighter + cleric vs. monster, build 1 + fighter + cleric vs. build 2 + fighter + cleric, etc. Choose a monster whose CR = average party level + 3 (a really tough one).

Run again with a monster with good Spell Resistance, and maybe an undead.

These little battles will help you figure out which build works best in these combat situations. Then try to picture non-combat situations like breaking into a guarded castle without alerting guards, gathering information from a reluctant mercenary guild, whatever. That will help you figure out which utility spells you may need.

 

[Jeremy]

To be honest, that sounds like too much work...

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Have you tried talking to your DM about Spell Thematics and Energy Substitution?

For instance, IMC, Spell Thematics is pretty much automaticly applied - it's why Bob (who knows Magic Missile) needs to make a Spellcraft check to decipher Steve's Magic Missile spell.

Moreover, I'd have no problem if someone wanted to run a themed sorceror changing the energy type on his spells or substituting equivalent spells. Instead of taking Fireball and Energy Substitution (Cold), just take Iceball.

In other words, many of your builds' "issues" can be solved without moving into torturous feat chains.

 

[Thanee]

Warmage:
Pros - spontaneous caster, access to all schools, INT to spell damage, possible entrance to dragonslayer/spellsword for free goodies, armored casting

Uhm... Warmages do not really get access to anything but Evocation and some Conjuration magic.

Bye
Thanee

 

[DungeonmasterCal]

Hijack:::

There's a Frost Mage base class in Frostburn?

 

[Thanee]

Here some additional options:

If you can use RotW/UA, you could make either a gray elven wizard with the racial substitution levels or a human wizard with human paragon thrown in.

Sorcerer is good, once you reach 6th~8th level. Before that, they are pretty weak.
But once you get there, IMHO the spontaneous casting really starts to be good.

BTW, I don't think Draconic Power is worth two feats. Rather pick up some metamagic instead. Altho, metamagic and Snowcasting does not work in conjunction. :\

As a Frost Mage, I'd go with the wizard. The gray elf with substitution levels.

Bye
Thanee