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Message: <blockquote data-quote="SpiralBound" data-source="post: 2994632" data-attributes="member: 8396">Comparative Test ResultsHi all,Sorry I'm a day late, I underestimated just how strenuously I would end up celebrating my birthday on Saturday past and thus everything took longer than expected. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />Anyway... Here are the results of my testing on Friday afternoon and this evening.I did four combats, first with the standard 3.5 rules and then repeated with Eltern's combat system.  All combats ran to five rounds or until one combatant was incapacitated, whichever came first.  The fights I did were as follows:Combat 1: Mujibur (Ftr1) vs. Vigdis (Ftr2)Combat 2: Vigdis (Ftr2) vs. Herdis (Rog3)Combat 3: Glum (Ftr5) vs. Sheherazed (Rog4)Combat 4: Mujibur (Ftr1) vs Erika (Rog1)First Test Series: Standard D&D D20 v3.5 combat system[sblock]Combat 1: Mujibur (Ftr1) vs. Vigdis (Ftr2)[sblock]Rnd 1: - M wins init - M Att: 14 / V AC 15 / miss - V Att: 20 / M AC 14 / 7 pt dmg / M: 3 hp Rnd 2: - M wins init - M Att: Nat 1 / miss - V Att: 13 / M AC 14 / missRnd 3: - V wins init - V Att: 16 / M AC 14 / 6 pt dmg / M: -3 hp (dying)---------Time: 4:47, avg. 1:36 per rnd[/sblock]Combat 2: Vigdis (Ftr2) vs. Herdis (Rog3)[sblock]Rnd 1: - V wins init - V Att: 13 / H AC 16 / miss - H Att: 17 / V AC 15 / 1 pt dmg / V: 14 hpRnd 2: - H wins init - H Att: 4 / V AC 15 / miss - V Att: 19 / H AC 16 / 6 pt dmg / H: 11 hpRnd 3: - V wins init - V Att: 15 / H AC: 16 / miss - H Att: 16 / V AC: 15 / 1 pt dmg / V: 13 hpRnd 4: - H wins init - H Att: Nat 1 / miss - V Att: 14 / H AC: 16 / missRnd 5: - V wins init - V Att: 9 / H AC: 16 / miss - H Att: 9 / V AC: 15 / miss---------Time: 5:27, avg. 1:05 per rnd[/sblock]Combat 3: Glum (Ftr5) vs. Sheherazed (Rog4)[sblock]Rnd 1: - G wins init - G Att: 14 / S AC: 15 / miss - S Att: 4 / G AC: 14 / missRnd 2: - S wins init - S Att: 18 / G AC: 14 / 1 pt dmg / G : 47 hp / S drop Sword & Shield - G Att: 19 / S AC: 13 / 5 pt dmg / S: 22 hpRnd 3: - G wins init - G Att: 18 / S AC: 13 / 10 pt dmg / S: 12 hp - S mv -5 ft / S ready bowRnd 4: - S wins init - S mv -5 ft / S Att: 20 / G AC: 14 / 6 ptdmg / G: 41 hp - G mv 10 ft / G Att: 19 / S AC: 13 / 5 pt dmg / S: 7 hpRnd 5: - S wins init - S mv -5 ft / S Att: 12 / G AC: 14 / miss - G mv 5 ft / G Att: 15 / S AC: 13 / 5 pt dmg / S: 3 hp---------Time: 9:17, avg. 1:51 per rnd[/sblock]Combat 4.1: Mujibur (Ftr1) vs Erika (Rog1)[sblock]Rnd 1: - E wins init - E mv -5 ft / E Att (bow): 12 / M AC: 14 / miss - M Att: Nat 20 / M Att: Nat 20 / 6 pt dmg (max dmg) / E: 0 hp---------Time: 1:38, avg. 1:38 per rnd--- discard ---[/sblock]Combat 4.2: Mujibur (Ftr1) vs Erika (Rog1)[sblock]Rnd 1: - M wins init - M Att: 19 / E AC: 16 / 2 pt dmg / E: 4 hp - E Att: 8 / M AC: 14 / missRnd 2: - M wins init - M Att: 20 / E AC: 16 / 2 pt dmg / E: 2 hp - E Att: 4 / M AC: 14 / missRnd 3: - E wins init - E Att: 9 / M AC: 14 / miss - M Att: Nat 19 / M Att: 8 / E AC: 16 / 7 pt dmg / E: -5 hp (dying)---------Time: 4:00, avg. 1:20 per rnd[/sblock][/sblock]Second Test Series: Eltern's combat system[sblock]Combat 1: Mujibur (Ftr1) vs. Vigdis (Ftr2)[sblock]Rnd 1: - V wins init / V selects Torso - V Att: 19 / M Def: 9 / <check spread chart> / <check wound chart> / M: 2 wounds Torso - M Att: 12 / V Def: 19 / <check spread chart> / V mv -5 ftRnd 2: - M wins init / M selects Right Arm - M Att: 12 / V Def: 15 / <check spread chart> / miss - V Att: 8 / M Def: 15 / <check spread chart> / M forfeits actionRnd 3: - M wins init / M selects Right Arm - M Att: 13 / V Def: 17 / <check spread chart> / miss - V Att: 14 / M Def: 19 / <check spread chart> / M forfeits actionRnd 4: - M wins init / M selects Right Arm - M Att: 21 / V Def: 11 / <check spread chart> / <check wound chart> / V: 2 wounds Right Arm - V Att(-2): 5 / M Def: 19 / <check spread chart> / M attempts to disarm V & failsRnd 5: - M wins init / M selects Right Arm - M Att: 5 / V Def: 28 / <check spread chart> / uncertain of approp. action, end fight.---------Time: 10:23, avg. 2:05 per rnd[/sblock]Combat 2: Vigdis (Ftr2) vs. Herdis (Rog3)[sblock]Rnd 1: - H wins init / H selects head - H Att: 9 / V Def: 20 / <check spread chart> / V attempts to disarm H & fails - V Att: 6 / H Def: 28 / <check spread chart> / V disarms HRnd 2: - H wins init / H retrieves weap. - V selects head / V Att: 19 / H Def: 9 / <check spread chart> / <check wound chart> / H: 2 wounds head / H: uncon. (dying)---------Time: 4:44, avg. 2:22 per rnd[/sblock]Combat 3: Glum (Ftr5) vs. Sheherazed (Rog4)[sblock]Rnd 1: - G wins init / G selects head - G Att: 12 / S Def: 15 / <check spread chart> / close call - S Att: 6 / G Def: 27 / <check spread chart> / AoO / G selects Right Arm / G Att: 17 / <check spread chart> / <check wound chart> / S: 1 wound Right ArmRnd 2: - S wins init / S selects Head - S Att(-1): 15 / G Def: 14 / <check spread chart> / minor scrape - G Att: 20 / S Def(-1): 26 / <check spread chart> / S drop Sword & Shield, ready bowRnd 3: - S wins init / S selects Head - S mv -5 ft / S Att(-1): 7 / G Def: 9 / <check spread chart> / close call - G Att: Nat 1 / missRnd 4: - S wins init / S selects Head - S Att(-1): 22 / G Def: 27 / <check spread chart> / G mv 5 ft. - G selects Head / G Att: 26 / S Def(-1): 12 / <check spread chart> / <check wound chart> / S: 2 wounds Head / S: uncon. (dying)---------Time: 10:28, avg. 2:37 per rnd[/sblock]Combat 4: Mujibur (Ftr1) vs Erika (Rog1)[sblock]Rnd 1: - E wins Init / E selects Head - E Att: 2 / M Def: 23 / <check spread chart> / AoO / M Att: 1 / miss - M selects Head / M Att: 15 / E Def: 7 / <check spread chart> / <check wound chart> / E: 1 wound HeadRnd 2: - M wins Init / M selects Head - M Att: 7 / E Def: 20 / <check spread chart> / E attempts trip & fails - E Att: 11 / M Def: 16 /  <check spread chart> / M mv -5 ftRnd 3: - E wins Init / E selects Head - E Att: Nat 1 / miss - M Att: 11 / E Def: 24 / <check spread chart> / E trips MRnd 4: - E wins Init / E selects Head - E Att: 9 / M Def(-4): 11 / <check spread chart> / close call - M stands / M Att: 17 / E Def: 21 / <check spread chart> / close callRnd 5: - M wins Init / M selects Head - M Att: 4 / E Def: 27 / <check spread chart> / AoO / E Att: 3 / M Def: 10 / miss - E selects Head / E Att: 17 / M Def: 6 / <check spread chart> / <check wound chart> / M: 2 wounds Head / M: uncon. (dying)---------Time: 11:13, avg. 2:15 per rnd[/sblock][/sblock]ObservationsThe standard combat system resulted in rounds that ranged from 1 minute to just under 2 minutes, with a 5 round combat typically taking between 5 & a half and 9 minutes.  By contrast, Eltern's combat system resulted in rounds that ranged from 2 minutes to 2 & a half minutes, with a typical 5 round combat lasting 10 & a half to 11 minutes.  Why such a time difference?Well, one big difference is that Eltern's system adds two charts to look up for each combat.  First, the spread chart to see if a wound occurs or not, and if one does, then the wound penalty chart to see what the effects of that many wounds in that areas results in.  In all fairness, with more usage the second chart would likely get committed to memory and thus not need to be referenced.  I'm not so sure about the first chart though.  Perhaps, it would, I'm not sure...  Either way, during this series of tests, they were definitely a factor.  Another difference was the addition of subtraction occasionally, which did slow things down a little - not a huge amount really, but it was noticed.  Lastly, there was the addition of the Defence roll, which replaced the AC number in the standard system.  That also wasn't a huge time addition, but it did take some time and it obviously contributed to the time totals.Does this mean that the system is a "failure"?  Of course not, but it does mean that the system is measureably slower and measureably more complicated to execute.  I didn't actually find it ackward and in fact, while the combats took nearly twice as long, they didn't "feel" longer.  I would be interested to know what a combat with more than just two combatants would be like though.  I suspect that the rounds would quickly get a lot longer with more participants per round...One other thing I noticed during testing which doesn't relate at all to the elements being tested, (those being only time and complexity to execute), was that it felt distinctly odd that the weapon one used didn't influence one's chance to deal a wound in any way whatsoever.  I was sorely tempted to equip Glum (Ftr5) with a foam sword (dmg 1d6-6?) and beat all the rogues to death with it using his melee attack rolls only! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />I am under the impression that this mechanic was intentional but I suspect that in actual gameplay, people will not be willing to accept that their longsword or battleaxe has no intrinsically better ability to damage an orc than a dagger does...  YMMV.  I also am perfectly willing to admit that I missed a reference to where a weapons innate damage-dealing ability was factored into the Attack Roll.  I re-read your posts carefully several times looking for it, but wasn't able to see any such reference.  In any case, all of that is outside the boundaries of my testing, so I'll drop that point.I hope that my time and complexity testing results are of some use to you.  I wish you the best of success in further streamlining and improving upon your system. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /></blockquote>

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