Need Help with a Template

[DungeonmasterCal]

Ok...after brainstorming over this, I realize I absolutely stink at creating templates. I've thrown up my hands in disgust and, were I not currently on crutches, I'd just throw a good ol' fashioned foot-stompin' tantrum. So, with that outlet not viable, I turn to you, the creative pool of ENWorld.

There are many, many variants on the Noble as a character class, many of them quite good. But none of them really trip my trigger. So it occurred to me today while listening to my old Thin Lizzy lp's and reworking AE's Mage Blade class for standard D&D that maybe a template could be constructed, much like the really outstanding "Savage" template at www.wakinglands.com. I'll never allow a barbarian in my game again, but will offer the Savage template instead.

My thought is this: a character is noble by the circumstances of his or her birth. A character class is gained through training or study, or having an innate, inborn gift. Being born rich wouldn't necessarily confer any special abilities or powers, but would allow the silver spoon set to explore the many options open to them as they grow. They could be fostered to a neighoring kingdom and learn warfare, or sent away to a secluded temple to become priests to serve their deity as well as use their position to influence the church. These sorts of things were commonplace throughout history. Being a member of the noble class shouldn't necessarily lock a player into a character class, but should be a flavor to add to an existing class.

So, here I am, tired and brain-fried from really loud 70's hard rock and failed creative attempts, appealing to the largest and most imaginative think-tank on the net. All suggestions and notions are welcome!

Thanks in advance!

 

[RandomPrecision]

I'm not sure what kind of level adjustment you want on that, and I haven't made many templates myself. It's really awesome that you're listening to lots of 70's music though.

Anyway, I might make Noble a +1 LA. +2 Cha because they're cultured nobility-types. Double starting gold - not sure how much that would be worth, but I'm putting in here. +2 to leadership. +2 to appraise and diplomacy, those are things nobles would probably know. Speak Language and Knowledge (nobility and royalty) become class skills.

I'm not sure how that will hold up, or if it's vaguely near LA +1 anymore. I was looking at the Aasimar template when I made this actually, just for a LA +1 template, and comparing it to the Aasimar, it looks like there's a significant bit more that could be added to this. I was wondering if it could be tied in with the Aristocrat NPC class somehow - maybe there could be some nobility-based bonus that increases with Aristocrat levels, thus causing Aristocrat to be a favorite (and possibly favored class of nobles).

 

[DungeonmasterCal]

Not sure about the level adjustment, either, but I'll look at it closer tomorrow. If you've not seen the Savage template at Waking Lands, take a peek. It's LA is +0, and it really flavors any class applied to it. I'm hoping to have a template that doesn't add an LA, if possible.

It's really awesome that you're listening to lots of 70's music though.

Thanks. I've been disillusioned with music since the early 90's, and while I'm not one to dwell in the misty remembrances of a misspent youth, sometimes you just GOTTA dig out the vinyl and think of simpler times.

 

[Nifft]

Noble

Requirements:
Human

Benefits:
+2 Intimidate
+2 Sense Motive
+4 Forgery
+2 Knowlege (Nobility & Royalty) <-- this is always a class skill
Do you know who I am? (Ex): A Noble may use an Intimidate check in place of a Diplomacy check to increase the attitude of an NPC, but at a +5 DC.

Penalties:
-2 to Fort save vs. Disease
-4 Disguise
-4 Bluff (includes feint)
Never gains proficency with the following weapons from any class feature: club, dart, greatclub, kukri, punching dagger, quarterstaff, sap, scythe, sling, sickle, spear (short, normal, long), or trident. A Noble may use Feats to gain proficency as usual -- one Feat for all Simple weapons, one for each Martial weapon.
Refined Tastes (Ex): Your upkeep influences your abilities as follows:
- Meager: You lose all benefits of the Noble template, and all numeric penalties are doubled. In addition, you take a -2 Morale penalty to all saves and checks.
- Poor: -2 Morale penalty to all saves and checks.
- Common: -1 Morale penalty to all saves and checks.
- Good: Normal.
- Extravagant: +1 Morale bonus to all saves, additional +2 Morale bonus to Intimidate checks.

LA: +0

-- N

 

[DungeonmasterCal]

That looks pretty good! Your signature says it all. I suspect I was looking at it from the wrong angle, and making it more complicated than necessary. Thanks!

 

[Ferret]

I would add in diplomacy checks into other nobles, ands thats it. Good, clear template

 

[DragonTurtle]

Interesting idea, I think the template could appeal to other races, especially elves.

Not sure if a bonus to forgery is something I would go with, I would get rid of this and remove the penalty to bluff. Nobles are like politicians, bluffing should be something they are good at.

The penalty to save vs. disease is brilliant, leading a priviliged life away from the commoners has exposed them to less germs causing their immune systems to be less developed.

To make things more complicated, how about an ability to call in a favor (Ex): The character can 1 time only call in a favor based on his family name. If the behavior in question that caused this favor to be used is quite scandalous then the character is disowned and no longer gains the benefits of this templates but retains the penalties.
Examples of this would be to have charges reduced or dropped for assaulting the town guard, Gaining audience with an important figure in order to impart information or make a plea, etc.

 

[Nifft]

Not sure if a bonus to forgery is something I would go with, I would get rid of this and remove the penalty to bluff. Nobles are like politicians, bluffing should be something they are good at.

Remember that Forgery is opposed by Forgery.

Also, note that NOT all nobles are diplomats. Most are used to commanding people, though.

-- N

 

[DragonTurtle]

Remember that Forgery is opposed by Forgery.

Also, note that NOT all nobles are diplomats. Most are used to commanding people, though.

-- N

Oh! I am not against the Forgery Modifier, I just think the extreme difficulty the average noble with a -4 to bluff would have doesn't fit and wanted to balance it by removing a bonus. Politician's have a stereotype for lying, and nobles have a sterotype for swashbuckling/ fencing so the inability to feint is also a penalty.

I understand these aren't the only archetypes for nobles but they are popular ones and I wouldn't want to remove it as an option for the DM's scheming NPCs or the PCs dashing rogues.

 

[Nifft]

Reasons for the Bluff penalty:
-> Nobles don't have to lie. They prefer to intimidate based on what they are actually capable of doing (e.g. killing you, a commoner, without consequence).
-> Nobles fight fair. Street fighters do that "feint" stuff. Nobles get some protection from feints (their Sense Motive bonus)...
-> Diplomats don't need to lie. They simply state the truth -- stressing certain aspects and omitting certain facts perhaps -- in a way that is persuasive.
-> Advisors (Grand Vizirs in particular) can be good at lying -- so get yourself one if you plan on being all trixie!
-> Nobles are noble. Lying is base. Be a normal rich guy with no scruples if you want to lie a lot.

Anyway, that's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

-- N