Need help with Archivist build

[Herzog]

I'm currently working on an Archivist build, and I could use some help.

I'm starting at lvl 9, and got the following worked out:

Race: Lesser Thiefling
Alignment: Lawful Neutral
Stats (after racial adjustment and bonuses at 4 and 8 ) :
STR 8
DEX 15
CON 9
INT 20
WIS 18
CHA 12

Feats:
1: Archivist of Nature
3: Knowledge Devotion
6: Planar Touchstone -> Catalogues of Enlightenment -> Kobold Domain
9: Touch of Healing

Skill ranks:
Concentration 12
Disable Device 4
Knowledge (arcana) 12
Knowledge (dungeoneering) 12
Knowledge (history) 1
Knowledge (local) 1
Knowledge (nature) 12
Knowledge (religion) 12
Knowledge (the planes) 12
search 12
spellcraft 12

I am thinking about leaving archivist after level 11, and have been looking for good Prestige classes.

My best 'fit' up to now has been the Paragnostic Apostle, but I have two 'problems' with it:

1. I don't have turn undead, so the turn progression is wasted.
2. it is only 5 levels, so I can either pick up additional Archivist levels afterwards, or I 'have' to find another PrC to stack on top of it (or take instead of it)

I've been looking for ways to get turn undead, but the only options I could find (Apostle of Peace and sacred excorcist) require you to be good.
(I think Ur priest could also work, but since it has its own casting it would be like multiclassing, which I would like to avoid)

I've also been looking for other Prestige Classes that fit with either the 'knowledge is power' theme, or even those that would fit in with some kind of fiendish heritage, but have been unable to find any that progress divine spellcasting (and don't provide bonuses that I already have) except for Loremaster, which I consider too give out 'too little, too late, and not theme appropriate'.

I tried several Archivist build handbooks, but none of them have very good PrC listings/build advise for what I am looking for.

I can still tweak my build somewhat (although I would prefer not to change my alignment)

Any published WotC book is fair game (although I would still need to run it by my DM) and any pointers are very welcome.

 

[Jackinthegreen]

You've already mentioned all the PrCs I've ever heard of that grant turning, so you're pretty much SoL on that front. The turning for Paragnostic Apostle might be wasted, but the other things it provides could be worth it if you're specializing in the spells that benefit from the various Knowledge is Power options. If you aren't, then going pure Archivist really isn't a bad option since it does have useful class features unlike Cleric or Wizard.

Have you considered the Collector of Stories skill trick and its possible interaction with Knowledge Devotion?

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

Would it help to take a single level in Cleric or another base class that does offer Turning?

 

[Herzog]

No, as I said, I'd like to avoid multiclassing.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

What more do you want to do than Archivist 20 provides? You can be a Skillmonkey, you can summon both monsters and natures allies, you can Divine Favor / Divine Power / Righteous Might into combat like a Cleric, You can do all the healing you want, and so on. Be sure to make the most fo those Druid spells!

Archivist makes a great base for a Thurmaturgist, which you could PRC into as a level 9 character (Archivist7/Thurmaturgist2) for just 1 different feat. Contingent Conjuration is a lifesaver for a level 11 character and at level 12 you've got a sweet cohort. It sort of fits the "Knowledge is Power" and "Fiendish" themes if you play of the "I'm communicating with the multiverse" angle.

 

[Herzog]

I guess I have become accustomed to base classes that don't offer anything but spellcasting and little to no other options to keep you invested in the class.
And, to be honest, although the Archivist gets something on almost every level, after level 11 he only gets 'extra uses' of Dark Knowledge and a feat at lvl 20.
There are also no powers that actually scale with level (such as a Familiar, Animal Companion or Smite Evil), so unless the number of DK uses at lvl 11 isn't enough, I see no reason to keep taking levels in the class.

As to your suggestions, that's kind of my main problem when searching for PrC's: I don't like summoning. The summon monster line is one thing, but planar ally spells are just too 'fuzzy' for me. They rely on DM calls to determine the exact level of power you get from them, and the level of problems they may cause.
You either loose XP and gold and gain next to nothing in return, or they quickly turn into overpowered options. Neither is appealing to me.


Maybe I should be more elaborate in what I am searching for in a PrC:

I like to get additional options (Turn Undead, familiar, Lore, Bardic Music like effects, etc)
I have a fondness of combining underpowered options (two weapon fighting) and optimizing or powerfull options (tier 1 classes) with versatility.

I like to keep builds within a certain 'theme', although I can spin a tale around selected options most of the time without breaking a sweat.

In short: I like to add options to the current build without losing out on more than one level of spellcasting or investing in feats that I will only use to qualify for the prc.
I like to gain options that can be explained by researching dark and forbidden (or simply lost) lore.

As an example: I have considered taking Bind vestige and doing something with Binding, or combining Shadow Magic, Truename magic or Pact magic options with my current build.
However, most options require an investment of two or more feats (and I really like my current selection of feats) or multiclassing.

Anyway, hope this might spark someone with an idea. Because at the moment, it looks like I will be doing Archivist 11/Paragnostic apostle 5/Archivist 4 . Which might be a nice build, but somehow unsatisfying.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

I completely agree with you on the messiness of the Planar ally spells. Besides utilizing the 5th level PrC ability and qualifying for the PrC in the first place, I'd advise you to never use them.

However, I'd like to make one last recommendation for Thurmaturgist. If you want to add options without loosing spellcasting, summoning is a great way to go. Since an Archivist can gain both the Monster and Nature's Ally lines of summon spells, Augmented Summoning and Extended Summoning means you've got a huge variety of stronger-than-to-be-expected extra characters that will last 20 rounds (or 40 rounds if you take the actual Extend Spell feat, which apparently stacks!) once you hit level 10 (with an Archivist7/Thurmaturgist2 build).

If adding more playable characters isn't an effective enough use of the action economy, at level 11 you'll now summon as a contingency, so you can do so without even thinking about it.

Having Leadership for free to gain an exotic cohort at level 12 is icing on your double-fudge-stuffed-with-chocolate character cake.

If you really don't like summons, ok. But consider the delicious options if you go this route.

 

[Herzog]

Ok, I've taken some time to think things over, and have come to the following conclusion:

I would like, at the very least, to have all the Archivist abilities. Which means 14 levels of archivist (I missed the lvl 14 option earlier)
This means I have at most 6 levels to spend on something else. 5 levels of Paragnostic Apostle might just do the trick.

This just leaves me with one question: when to take those Paragnostic Apostle levels.
I qualify by lvl 5, so I could take them lvl 6-10. Or, I could wait out the lvl 8 Archivist ability, and take them lvls 9-13.

Or, I could alternate PA and Archivist levels starting at lvl 6 (or 9).

I could also take the PA levels starting at lvl 12, but it feels like at that lvl the abilities gained from PA are sub-par. ('bardic' lore starting at 2+int at lvl 6 is reasonable, but at lvl 12 just isn't worth it)

Any suggestions?

 

[TwoSix]

Holt Warden and Contemplative both seem like they could work. Holt Warden grants you an actual domain (spell slots and everything) if you're a non-cleric, and Contemplative adds domains. I went this route as a Spirit Shaman, it was a pretty fun build.