Need Help with my Players

[Seaver]

Aw man. I thought that was a good one.

 

[noretoc]

Hmm, I guess I was too subtle.

That may have been true, but your second attempt, in the same post yet, had just the right amount. Good job.

 

[Darkness]

there seems to be a signifcant minority who see any attempt to play the game well as a bad thing.

Huh? Examples (e.g., links), please.

I mean, I have heard many people complain about players planning out their character several levels in advance. How is that different from a chess player looking five moves ahead?

I wouldn't say it's a bad thing.
It can be wasted effort, but still...
(Just like in Chess, what happens in the game can easily invalidate the planned moves. And in D&D, there are many more possibilities for this than in Chess - and the opposition's actions are harder to predict as well. Also, you don't need a DM to approve your Chess moves - but for prestige classes, at the very least, you do.)

 

[Elvinis75]

Pushing him as the DM in the wrong direction

I think that there are a lot of people in here telling you that you have a problem when it isn't either of you or your group that necessarily has a problem. It could actually be partly both you and your players. As with life I fear that extremists are almost never the best. Roleplaying to the point of pasifism isn't IMHO the best way to play a game that has a chapter + detailing combat.
Don't get me wrong, it is important that your PCs talk to the the locals and find out what is going on. But if all they are going to do is sit there and talk, they will have a lot of peeved NPCs to deal with. Resentment is common among people that see people that have the ability to help and show concern but do nothing.
Without knowing more or sitting in on the session it is hard to tell but my suggestion is to display through the game that there are real struggles that the NPC are dealing with. Their son or daughter did nothing to warrent and early death. The less moral grays that you throw into your campain the less endless moral conversation.
With that being said if your PCs are not happy and talk doesn't change the situation with that style of play you have two choices.
1 - Find different players
2 - Let someone else DM and play if you like and see how that goes, else it's back to choice 1.

 

[Zappo]

They could try to talk to the orcs.

 

[ichabod]

Huh? Examples (e.g., links), please.

The latest one was "Munchkin Powers Activate: Form of a Hill Giant!" However, that isn't quite what I'm really talking about. On the one hand the guy he's talking about might be a goof, but on the other, it sort of sounded like "This guy found a cool tactical maneuver, what a jerk."

As Lord Pendragon said, there are plenty of posts saying "My players won't roleplay, what's wrong with them?" Wait around a week or two, I'm sure you'll see another one.

 

[Darkness]

... it sort of sounded like "This guy found a cool tactical maneuver, what a jerk."

Wow. If someone really thinks that, D&D might not be the best game for them, LOL.

there are plenty of posts saying "My players won't roleplay, what's wrong with them?" Wait around a week or two, I'm sure you'll see another one.

*nods* These, I know. Nothing wrong with them, either; it's certainly harder to find players who are willing to role-play, than players who are willing to fight. At least in my experience.

Heh. Personally, I'd have a hard time playing with anyone who can't do at least a minimum of both, assuming we play a combat-intensive game.

 

[kalunk]

If you want them to fight tactally then use tactics to kill them. then when they are all dead point out to them where they went wrong... my group had a very hard time working together untill i exploited their weakness and then when they were slaughtered i showed them where they could have done a better job. If your party let the orcs go then make sure they pay dearly for the mistake. If you don't want to kill them then let them get captured, tortured and stripped of all their goods...that always makes for a fun night and I bet they will never let a retreating enemy live again.

 

[Gothmog]

Originally posted by ichabod:

I don't actually have any problems with my players. I just get tired of all these "my players are munchkins, how do I get them to roleplay?" posts. I mean, most of the people on these boards are cool. However, there seems to be a signifcant minority who see any attempt to play the game well as a bad thing.

I mean, I have heard many people complain about players planning out their character several levels in advance. How is that different from a chess player looking five moves ahead?

Well, from my experience a lot more players are role-playing impaired than roll-playing impaired. D&D is a lot more than just a tactical exercise in ganking enemies, swiping loot, and blowing money on magic items. Thats Diablo. And while Diablo is fun for a while, it gets old in a hurry. IMO, plot, character motivation, and depth are needed in a game to make it enjoyable, and many others feel this way too. So when their players can't see past the numbers and pillaging, they ask for help in how to motivate their players to be more open to role-playing. A good game needs sound tactical elements AND a good plot, AND compelling role-playing. And I don't think I am in the minority by saying that.

Chess is a completely different type of game than a RPG. Chess is almost completely about tactics and mental exercise, with no story, character motivations, etc. Tactical games are meant to be played with the express purpose of winning. RPGs are not about winning, but about everyone having a good time, and mutually creating a good story. The problem people have with "muchkins" comes in when they view the game as a tactical exercise, where they feel they have to have the most powerful character- in essence, they MUST win, even if it is at the expense of the other players and DM.

In the end, playing the game well comes down to what you and your players enjoy. If they want nothing more than hack-n-slash and are happy with that, go with it. If they want deep-immersion role-playing, go that direction as well. Most people prefer something in the middle. There is no "proper" or "official" way to play D&D, and I'd quickly give someone the boot who insisted there was.

 

[Elvinis75]

2nd attempt

Ichabod,
I realised that I spent a lot of my first reply addressing the other people rather than addressing each of your points so here it goes.
Irrelavent Tangents.
What are the alignments of your characters? If they are the deep roleplayers then they each will behave according to the wishes of the people that talk to them. They talk to person A, say female citizen Jane. Jane says that she wishes that this could stop as her daughter died in the last attack. Exit Jane. PCs talk to barmaid and flirt for ½ hour RT. Barmaid comes over with a round of free drinks and says that they are from businessman in the corner(his way of asking them for help). Soldiers come off their shift and sit down next to PCs. “So you’re the people that Jane thinks are going to help”(mild insult) I always think that townsfolk are stupid to believe in drifters. They have no personal stake why would you do anything." If PCs don’t rebuff this idea the others in the bar become cool to cold. If after the raid they still are hanging around the town the loathing begins. An old crone whips a tomato at the leader, “Miserable sons of wh***s, get out of our town. We don’t need you cowardly type round here.” Etc…
Now the speed of this path to loathing would depend on the characters actions.
Wow that was long, now on to the use of tactics.

I don’t think that your players especially the mage is being stupid. Wargaming is just another part of 3E. Reward the characters for taking risks and learning another part of the game. Make playing in character part of the campaign. Growing as a character is also important. Reward the mage for taking chances. Have him/her make a connection with a mentor or love interest and they encourage him/her to take chances. Have a soldier fight with them and ask for aid and to help him flank the enemy.

So in conclusion, encourage the stuff that you would like them to try. Don’t forget that you are the center of the game as a DM and if you are not having fun then what is the point. Throw in a little of all types of play in your campaign but if you can’t stand the only thing that they find fun, explain it to them and move on. Games are for having fun not pulling out your hair.
Have Fun!