Need military help Vietnam War in Nexus D20

[garrowolf]

Which of these special forces groups were active during the Vietnam War (besides Green Berets)? And was their training different from what I have for the current groups?



[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Air Force Combat Controllers[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Requirements: Aviation Support MOS, Stealth (T), Jump School MOS, Resolve (F), Athletics (F), Resistance (F)[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Training: Diving MOS, (ath:F) HALO, One Terrain Warfare College MOS, (Per) Diplomacy, Construction Engineering MOS, (Tactics) Special Operations Warfare[/FONT]


[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Air Force Pararescue [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Requirements: Medical MOS, Jump School MOS, Resolve (F), Athletics (F), Resistance (F)[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Training: One Terrain Warfare College MOS, (Prc) Eagle Eye, Ranged (F), SERE MOS, (Tactics) Special Operations Warfare, Diving MOS, (ath: F) HALO[/FONT]


[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Army Ranger [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Requirements: Infantryman MOS, Jump School MOS, one Terrain Warfare College MOS, Athletics (F), Resolve (F), Resistance (F)[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Training: (Eng) Demolitions, (Tactics) Special Operations Warfare, additional Terrain Warfare College MOS, Ranged (F), Resistance (F)[/FONT]


[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Army SOAR [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Requirements: Pilot MOS, Jump School MOS, Resolve (F), Athletics (F), Resistance (F)[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Training: Aviation Support MOS, (Pilot:F) Air Support, Strafing, Search and Rescue, Stealth[/FONT]


[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Army Delta Force[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Requirements: Jump School MOS, Urban Warfare College MOS, Resolve (F), Athletics (F), Resistance (F)[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Training: (ops) Electronic Warfare, (Per) Gather Information, (Tactics) Special Operations Warfare, Hostage Situations, (Ath) Forced Entry, (eng) Demolitions, Ranged (F), Stealth (F), (per) Reconnaissance, Infantryman MOS, Defense Language Institute MOS[/FONT]


[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Army Special Forces (Green Berets) [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Requirements: Jump School MOS, Defense Language Institute MOS, Signals MOS, Resolve (F), Athletics (F), Resistance (F)[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Training: (sur:F) Indigenous Training, (tac) Special Operations Warfare, (ops) Electronic Warfare, (Per) Gather Information, (eng) Demolitions, Ranged (F), Stealth (F), (ath) Swimming, Survival (F), (per) Reconnaissance[/FONT]


[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Marine Special Operations[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Requirements: Amphibious Assault Training MOS, Jump School MOS, Jungle/Swamp Training MOS, Infantryman MOS, Resolve (F), Athletics (F), Resistance (F)[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Training: (tac) Special Operations Warfare, , (per) Reconnaissance, (eng) Demolitions, Ranged (F), Stealth (F), Survival (F), Sniper MOS[/FONT]


[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Navy Seals [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Requirements: Amphibious Assault Training MOS, Diver MOS, Drive (Powerboat), Resolve (F), Athletics (F), Resistance (F)[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Training: (nat) Navigation, Ocean Training, Sailboats, (ath) Underwater Combat, (tac) Special Operations Warfare, , (per) Reconnaissance, Ranged (F), Stealth (F), Survival (F), Jump School MOS, (Ath:F) HALO[/FONT]


[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Navy Special Boat Units [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Requirements: Amphibious Assault Training MOS, Jungle/Swamp Training MOS, Resolve (F), Athletics (F), Resistance (F)[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Training: Drive (Powerboat), (ath) Swimming, (nat) Ocean Gunnery, Navigation, Riverboats (tac) Special Operations Warfare, , (per) Reconnaissance, Ranged (F), Stealth (F), Survival (F)[/FONT]

 

[Thunderfoot]

Rangers, Green Berets, SEALs and the Navy's Patrol boat (River Raiders) squadron. The Air Force had S&R (Search & Rescue) guys at the time which is what eventually became the PJs, but they weren't actually Spec Ops at the time.

Also the CIA had several civilian ops in the AO at the time, while not exactly Spec Ops, they were covert and did some Spec Ops counter ops like the Green Berets.

As always, Hope this helps.

 

[garrowolf]

Air Force Combat Controllers - I know that these evolved from Army Pathfinders during WW2 and they became Air Force Pathfinders for a while. I'm trying to find out if they were called Air Force Pathfinders during Vietnam and Korea.

Marine Special Operations - What were these guys called during Vietnam?


Was there chem warfare training during that time beyond put on a mask?

 

[El Mahdi]

Was there chem warfare training during that time beyond put on a mask?

I honestly don't know about your first two questions (Pathfinders and Marines in Vietnam). I don't even think there's anything on Wikipedia about that. Might need to hit a library.

From talking to my Dad, it sounds like Chem Warfare training was essentially the same during the Vietnam era. Though the suits and masks of the day were a little different to what we have today (though the old suits and masks were still the issued suits when I enlisted in '86). They covered all the same basics: antidote kits, donning and wearing mask, the gas chamber, donning and wearing a suit, MOPP's, detection and decon prodedures, etc.

However, in the Vietnam theater, I doubt they ever really used chem gear. I honestly don't think they would even carry a mask with them, though I don't know that for sure.

I Don't know if there's any Vietnam Vets on the forum, but they'd be the ones to ask.



The Mask and Chem Gear

\

The M17 Gas Mask. It had two filters, one installed in each cheek of the mask from the inside (mask had to be removed to change filters). The two seperate goggle like lenses kind of gave you wall-eye vision, and were made of hard plastic (not flexible). All the suits and masks of their day were made to be compatible throughout NATO, though to varying degrees of success. The M17 mask was used up into the early 90's (it was the mask issued during the Vietnam War, all the way up through the Gulf War). It was replaced by the MCU-2/P in the early to mid 90's.

The MCU-2/P Gas Mask. The filter was on the outside, but could be repositioned to either the left or the right side of the mask (for right and left handed shooters). The filter can be changed without removing the mask (just hold your breath, unscrew, and screw on a new one). The person above is taking a drink from their canteen through the drinking tube. The M17 had the same type drinking tube. Issued Canteens come standard with a connection for the drinking tube in the cap. This mask also had a hard plastic overlay that clipped over the soft clear vinyl lense, and their was a tinted version. The single lense screwed with your focus and depth perception a little less than the M17, though it still takes some getting used to. It also had connections to add a microphone inside it (for use with an intercom system), and could clip an optional amplified sound projector on the front (a miniature bull-horn). The picture above is with the older chem suit (same one as used with the M17). The older chem suit required a plastic/vinyl hood which was attached to the gas mask (snaps to the masks straps with an elastic opening that fits around the mask, a draw string around the neck, and straps that go under the arms to hold it down). The newer suits (JSLIST) have a hood as part of the jacket (fabric rather than vinyl), and are a bit lighter (which is kind of like saying the Philippines are cooler than Thailand...). It also has pull on rubber boots with elastic hook-and-eye closures rather than the old lace up overboots (they were very cumbersome, could catch on foliage and objects, etc.).

Old

New


There's an even newer mask that is now in use since I retired (started issuing in 2009), called the M50 mask. Though I don't know much about it.

 

[Embermage]

Both Delta Force and Army SOAR came about after Vietnam. Delta's first real-world operation was the fiasco at Desert One (Operation Eagle Claw - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia), and the 160th SOAR was put together as a response to that incident, so that high speed units like Delta wouldn't have to depend on less elite aviators in the future.

 

[El Mahdi]

Both Delta Force and Army SOAR came about after Vietnam. Delta's first real-world operation was the fiasco at Desert One (Operation Eagle Claw - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia), and the 160th SOAR was put together as a response to that incident, so that high speed units like Delta wouldn't have to depend on less elite aviators in the future.

It was also the impetus for the creation of AFSOC. Desert One was pivotal in the future shape of almost all special forces and commands.

 

[garrowolf]

ok so what about the Air Force Combat Controllers?

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

They were there, though not organized as special operations at the time. They performed some really wild feats vectoring in bombers from inside Laos, among other things.

MARSOC is a creation of this century, by the way.

 

[garrowolf]

so what was the Marine special forces group called during vietnam?

 

[domino]

The Air Force had S&R (Search & Rescue) guys at the time which is what eventually became the PJs, but they weren't actually Spec Ops at the time.

I think, (and wikipedia backs me up on this, but that's as reliable as you want to take it) that the PJs were around (and called such) during Vietnam. Hence the green footprint tattoo, from the Jolly Green Giant helicopters they used. No clue if they were special forces at the time though.

so what was the Marine special forces group called during vietnam?

Force Recon.