Need Opinion/Help on Board Game Design

[Rechan]

I'm designing a board game, and need both a review of what rules I have, and assistance with some elements I haven't been able to address.

Yes, I know about Boardgamegeek.com, I posted there, but have not received as much help as I would like - besides, ENWorld is my go-to place.

So, the game:

Horror Night at the Lake House
Horror Night at the Lake House is a cooperative board game where you play the evil forces attempting to kill a group of victims staying at the Lake House. It uses horror movie tropes to facilitate the feel of a killer stalking their next kill, as their victims try in vain to call help, escape, or find means to fight back.

Scenarios
Players determine the Scenario at the beginning of the game. Scenarios help determine the context of why the Victims are at the Lake House, and the nature of the Killer. Each has a modifying effect for the Victims and the Killer. Are the Victims at the Lake House for a Weekend Party, or are they there On A Dare? Is the Killer a ghost, or a pack of evil gremlins?

Roll a die and consult the Setting section of the manual.
Example: The Setting is a Sorority [I can't think of a good way this effects the rules in the Victims favor]

Roll a die and consult the Nature of the Killer section of the manual.
Example: The Nature of the Killer is a Deranged Psycho. When a roll on a kill die is a failure, it can be rerolled once.

Winning the Game
All Victims are killed.
Losing the Game
The Survivor Deck runs out.
If a victim is alive at Dawn (end of x rounds).
The last surviving victim kills the Killer

Rounds until Dawn
The game plays for x rounds. A round ends when all players have had a Turn. At the end of X rounds, the night is over, and if any Victims remain alive, the game is over and the Players have lost.

A Player's Turn
There are three phases of a player's turn:
First, draw a Survivor card and resolve its action.
Second, draw a Horror card.
Third, a player can do two of three actions
1) Play a Horror Card.
2) Move the Killer 1 room.
3) Make a kill roll.
(Should players be able to do the same action more than once?)
At the end of the turn, if the player has x cards in hand, discard one.

Pieces on the Board
Board: The game is played on a board with a grid. Each grid is a room of the Lake House, and movement is based on one move per room.

Survivor Deck: Survivor cards are cards that help Victims complete their goals, avoid death, or otherwise hamper the Players.
Example: Every Victim not undergoing a goal loses 1 Kill Point on them.

Horror Deck: Horror cards are cards that players use to delay a Victim's efforts at a Goal, add Kill points to a victim, or otherwise influence the game in the Player's favor. Each card has a symbol (such as a skull) in one corner.
Example: Twisted Ankle. Target Victim cannot advance on their Goal until next round.

Victims: Each victim has a Mini and a card that corresponds with them. A victim card has their stats: A Vulnerability rating, their Kill target roll, Starting Room, and unique trait.

Example Victim Card:
The Promiscuous Cheerleader
Vulnerability: 2
Kill target roll: A roll of 3 or 5
Starting Room: Any room with a male Victim.
Unique: The first time the Killer enters the room with her, she flees one room.

Killing a Victim
There are three steps to killing a victim.
1): Certain Horror cards, when played, put a Kill Point on a Victim. A victim cannot be killed until there are enough Kill Points on them equal to their Vulnerability rating.
2): The Killer and Victim must be in the same room. This means moving the Killer into the room with a victim.
3): Roll a kill die. The die must match the victim's Kill die roll.
(Uncertain about this death mechanic - how does it look?)

Goals
When a Goal is drawn from the Survivor deck, the card is placed under a Victim Card (how do you determine which Victim gets the goal)?
That victim is now trying to achieve that goal. Many Survivor cards move Victims forward 1 step to completing their Goals. Each Goal has 4 steps to completion.
Success at a Goal is a serious setback for the Players. Each time a Victim succeeds at their Goal, X Survival cards are drawn and played immediately. Remember that the game ends if the Survival deck runs out.
Players can either delay a Victim with Horror cards, kill a Victim before they complete their Goal, or Thwart a Goal.
Players Thwart a Goal by playing cards with symbols correspond with a symbol on the Goal Card. Playing a Horror card in this manner means the card's normal effect does not come into play. A goal needs 3 Horror cards matched in this manner to Thwart.

Example Goal Card: Get the Car Keys
Steps: [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ]
Thwart: 3 Skulls

Events
An event is a special circumstance that occurs once in the game. A single Survivor card, drawn, triggers an Event. Players roll a die, and check the Event that corresponds in the manual.
Example: The House is on Fire. The Killer is immediately distracted, and is unable to move or make a kill this turn.
Example: Late Arrival. Add a new victim mini to the board, and shuffle a new Goal card into the Survivor deck.

The Game Begins
At the beginning of the game, randomly pick x Victim cards. Look at what Starting Room the Victim's card says, and place that mini in that room.
Randomly take a Goal card for each Victim. Cut the Survivor deck x times, place a Goal card on top of each cut, then re-assemble the deck and shuffle.
(Should 1 Goal card be out at the beginning of play?)

Unresolved Issues
A) Making movement and locations relevant: I think movement should be important, to have the feel of hunting down the Victims for the kill, or allowing them to flee. Just having abstract movement (cards that just say "They run away", or instantly having the Killer in the room with them). The board also is nice because it reinforces the House that they are all being stalked inside, instead of just a floating concept.

The thing is, I'm not sure how to make movement and locations relevant. For instance, what controls the Victim's movement, besides their Starting location? I was thinking that Goals relate to this, for instance the "Start The Generator" Goal needs to be done in the Basement. This still doesn't address what's the sequence of Victim movement? For instance, do they move 1 room per turn? Do they just appear in the room corresponding with the Goal? What about random movement (like moving clockwise at the beginning of each Round for Victims not completing a goal)? When they flee a monster, what direction do they go?

One thought relating to locations is that Survivor are keyed to certain locations. For instance "Victims in the Basement move 1 Step towards their Goal; Victims in the Attic lose 1 Vulnerability point". But I'm not sure if this will work, as it may not provide enough successes overall for Victims to complete their goals, and thus making the game easier.

B) Endgame scenario with the Last Victim: I want the game to change a little when there is one remaining Victim.

1) The game is supposed to emulate horror movies, and the final character has a good chance of survival. For this reason, I think the Final Victim should be able to kill the Killer. But how to accomplish this? Should the Final Victim immediately gain a new Goal, with few Steps? Some sort of Roll when the Final Victim is in the room with the Killer?

2) Because many horror movies end with the last survivor escaping alive, I was wondering about a way to possibly alter the win/lose conditions. For some reason I was thinking that if Dawn arrives (at the end of X rounds) and there is only 1 Victim alive, the game either ends with a Win, or the game does not END - players must still kill the Final victim before the Survival deck runs out. I'm not sure. This almost feels like it would mess up the game, but I would LIKE some sort of circumstance that acknowledges this trope.

 

[Piratecat]

Just thinking quickly, not necessarily jibing with your established game mechanics:

To properly emulate a horror movie, the villain moves faster than the victim but the victim can take actions to slow him down. The victim should have mechanics that encourage them to hide. Actually attacking the villain doesn't necessarily stop them, but might slow them down long enough to escape. Certain actions might make the villain vulnerable to death, especially actions that put the corresponding victim at risk. (example: briefly fixing the fusebox. The light makes the villain vulnerable while the light lasts, but the villain can appear wherever he wants on the board. Don't leave one person behind!)

Mechanics should encourage players to consider throwing other players to the wolves. For instance, say the villain can only be killed by the last player standing, but only after being worn down substantially by attacks and disadvantages. Players will want to work together for a time and then start making sure each other gets killed off. Mechanics should emulate this.

It seems to me like this is a pretty ambitious project. The best method I've found is to reduce the game to its bare essentials and playtest it. This will nail down movement. Is it fun? Keep it. Is it not? Then don't. Then, gradually, add complexity back in until you're approaching the game you want it to be.

 

[Rechan]

Hi Piratecat!

To properly emulate a horror movie, the villain moves faster than the victim but the victim can take actions to slow him down.

Actually I think it's the reverse - the killer is slow, the victims are fast, and can flee if they try, but they never go anywhere good/they get slowed down. This is why most kills are done via surprise. But that's quibbling.

Mechanics should encourage players to consider throwing other players to the wolves. For instance, say the villain can only be killed by the last player standing, but only after being worn down substantially by attacks and disadvantages. Players will want to work together for a time and then start making sure each other gets killed off. Mechanics should emulate this.

This reads like the players are the victims trying to evade teh killer. My goal is to make a game where the players ARE the killer, a co-op game like Pandemic or Shadows over Camelot.

 

[Rechan]

I received one compelling suggestion but it alters the gameplay significantly, and I am tossing it in here to get feedback.

Bottom Line
The players decide between chasing people away from goals, or moving them into a room/waiting until the victim moves around so Players can put Kill Points or other hampering effects on Victims.

Rules
First: Instead of Goal Steps being abstract, they are tightly linked to both movement and room locations. Instead it would be something like "Start Generator: Step 1, Got to Garage for Gas Can. Step 2: Go to Yard and Siphon Gas. Step 3: Go to Basement and start generator." Each Survivor card is keyed to a location, so if the Victim is in The Garage, it says "Victims in Garage move 1 Room towards Goal", the Victim would move into the Yard (and thus reach step 2 of goal).

Second: The Player wants to herd a Victim into a specific room. Killer Point or other hampering cards are keyed to specific locations. Also in order to Delay a goal, Victims need to be moved away from the physical location that is associated with their Goal, making them waste movements getting back on track.

Third: Herding is done via Killer movement. When a Killer is in the room with a Victim, if the Killer cannot kill the victim on that turn, at the end of that turn the Victim flees the room. However the Player gets to choose which room the Victim flees into.

Fourth: Killer movement is based on cards. So "Killer moves into Kitchen".

Example
Victim is in The Basement. In two moves, he will achieve his Goal in the Library.
Player A has "Move Killer to Basement".
Player B has "Put Killpoint on Victim in Back Yard".
Player A plays his card, and the Killer appears in the Basement. He can't kill the Victim, so at the end of his turn, he chooses the Victim flees out the door into The Back Yard.
Player B plays "Put Killpoint on Victim in Back Yard."

They have managed to move the Victim away from his goal for two turns, and put a killpoint on him.

This method would work especially well if Victims withotu goals have pre-programmed movement scripts. At the beginning of each turn, a Victim let's say "Always moves towards the Lake" or "Always moves towards Another Victim".

 

[Piratecat]

Yeah, see what happens when I read something quickly? Totally missed the central thrust of the game. That's embarrassing.

A challenge: being slow isn't necessarily fun. I prefer to be fast and have obstacles flung at me that slows me down, and occasionally have the ability to spring up out of the shadows when least expected. Personal predilection. Basing killer movement on cards seems too random to me. Most co-op games give the players great choice in their movements, create steady but unpredictably expanding targets that they have to knock back, and create difficult choices. That should be your design mantra: difficult choices for every player every turn.

 

[Jhaelen]

This reads like the players are the victims trying to evade teh killer. My goal is to make a game where the players ARE the killer, a co-op game like Pandemic or Shadows over Camelot.

This is what I find a bit confusing: Multiple players playing one killer cooperatively. I have difficulty understanding how that should work (well). This also doesn't sound particularly cooperative. It reads more like playing a solo game taking turns. To be truly cooperative wouldn't you need each player to play their own killer character?

 

[Rechan]

Personal predilection. Basing killer movement on cards seems too random to me. Most co-op games give the players great choice in their movements

The player movement isn't random, but hinges on what cards they have. This is similar to Castle Panic, where players have to have cards keyed to specific locations to attack the oncoming enemy. That isn't Movement in and of itself, but it's equivalent in terms of application.

This is what I find a bit confusing: Multiple players playing one killer cooperatively. I have difficulty understanding how that should work (well).

What don't you understand? ON each person's turn, they move the mini representing the players around.

This also doesn't sound particularly cooperative. It reads more like playing a solo game taking turns. To be truly cooperative wouldn't you need each player to play their own killer character?

Cooperative games just means "We win or lose together" "We're all working to the same goal" instead of competitive "I win you lose". Most co-op games give players their own token, but not all. Castle Panic is a good example here - there's no difference between players, you theoretically could play the game by yourself (but you would lose because it runs on the cards in your hand and trading cards among players).

One mini per player wouldn't work in this game for a few reasons, but the biggest is that it would make the game too easy. The idea is being in a room with a victim and trying to kill them - if there are equal to or fewer victims than killers, then escape is too hard.

Conceptually I'm imagining the game plays similar to Castle Panic in terms of card usage and "all players are one thing" (in this case, an immovable castle), with Pandemic's sense of explosive activity/putting out fires. In my mind, the Goals are similar to Pandemic's Outbreak cards.

 

[Piratecat]

I get Jhaelen's point. Normal horror movie schtick is one killer, many victims. There's some thematic cognitive dissonance I get with thinking about many people controlling one killer. I'm sure that's easily overcome with good mechanics.

Thinking about it in comparison to Castle Panic is intriguing. I'll give it some thought.

 

[keterys]

Very interesting stuff! What's your goal for time taken? That is, there's a pretty big difference for intended gameplay between a 30-45 minute game and a 90-150 minute game.

I'd add an extra option to "move 1 room" to instead "Lurk". Victims won't enter a room with a killer unless they're unaware it's there (card screws them up, or it's already lurking). A lurking killer can then attack someone who enters the room (is herded by a player, or already wants to go there). A lurking victim can also be instantly moved anywhere somehow.

For victims, I like the idea of them having a certain amount of guidance to their goals to help their movements around the board. The reliance on cards feels more appropriate if your board is very simple or less of a focus though.

So, maybe the cheerleader wants to find a working phone, dial 911, and speak to the operator. The Jock wants to find his football helmet and pads, put them on, find a weapon.

You could then have more specific results than just "draw more cards", though maybe that's preferable. For example, the first reduces the # of rounds until the game ends and adds a cop "victim" who you have to deal with very quickly or he'll call for backup and end the game. The second makes it much tougher to kill the jock and makes him immune to certain types of delay cards.

You can also have group victim goals where they band together.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

What's if...what if this game were played on multiple boards?

Each player has a highly abstracted map of a typical movie killer's hunting ground: a castle/old house, a school, a lakeside camp. On that map, he controls the killer, while the other players control the victims. During each player's turn, he moves his killer on his board, and all of his victims on other players' boards.

Victory points are awarded:

1) when you kill a victims on your board, bonus when you kill all victims on your board
2) when you kill a killer on someone else's board

Most VPs win.