Need opinion on Dragon/Dungeon

[klofft]

So, for Father's Day, my wife offered to get me a sub to Dragon or Dungeon, or just to give me some money to fill out my 3.5 collection.

I was interested in Dragon or Dungeon, but (even noting how much off retail it is), I think $39 is a lot for a magazine sub. I wanted to know from the faithful readers here which (if either) of them would be right for me, or if I should just get a new book.

Dungeon has adventures, which is a big draw, but I only have one group that meets twice a month, so it's not like I need lots and lots of adventures.

I haven't read Dragon in two decades. If it hasn't changed, I'm not sure if it's for me either. Way back then, it had plenty of things I don't need: fiction, flavor bits, reviews, and editorials on the state of the hobby. All things I can frankly get all over the Internet. What I like in my books is crunch. I'm into serious crunch. I don't mind the proliferation of new races, classes, PrCs, spells, monsters, etc. Does Dragon cater to that at all?

Any insights you could offer me would be most appreciated in helping me make this decision.
Thanks!

Happy Fathers Day to the fathers on the boards!
C

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

I'm a Dungeon subscriber and I'd definitely recommend it. I stopped buying Dragon years ago and, though I might not know what I'm missing, I don't regret it.

 

[Rauol_Duke]

Simply put, IMO, Dungeon is better now than it has ever been. Dragon, no so much...

Happy Father's Day to you as well.

 

[Vrecknidj]

I subscribe to both, and have for several years. I often find, in the course of a year, that maybe 4 or 5 issues of each magazine has something in it that I want. But, the subscription cost for a whole year is a better value than the newsstand price of 5 issues. I could spend some time each month at a bookstore, looking for the issue, hoping it's not wrapped in plastic, and reading it to see if it's worth buying. I'd then end up with about half or a third of the issues each year.

Instead, the magazines show up in my mailbox. I can peruse them at my leisure, file away the ones that don't seem to have much I'm interested in, and leave out the ones that do.

I think $40 is cheap for 12 issues and all that reading time. It's about the price of taking my wife to see two movies, and for me, that's totally worth it.

Dave

 

[Echohawk]

But Dragon has The Order of the Stick

 

[Vascant]

I subscribe to both and have done so since well.. lets not date myself but lets say I have every issue of both magazines.

Both magazines have gone thru their ups and downs but I have to admit, currently they are sitting at a very high peek of quality and excellent material for the game. I can remember a time when they were so topic focused for each issue I could easily toss half the issues in the trash and never miss them. These days thats not the case, in every issue I find something worth reading. The true value of your collection is having a collection, being able to pull material from past issues to use for a situation in your current game.

 

[sckeener]

Both Magazines have changed in the last few years and for the better!

It would be hard for me to choose one over the other so I'm just going to describe why I like each and hopefully one of my reasons will hit a spot with you.

As others mentioned, Dungeon magazine is a good purchase. Even if you do not use each adventure that is in the magazine, picking and choosing scenes, villians, magic items, traps, plot hooks, etc is worth it. Then there is my favorite part, the Campaign Workbook. The ideas and Monte's Dungeon Craft sections make Dungeon a must buy for me.

Dragon magazine, if you are more a player and not a DM, then this magazine is probably the better purchase. In addition to providing details for cults, monsters, magic (items&spells), it also provides good insights into playing the basic classes. Also if you are a fan of old class AD&D worlds, Dragon is the place to find gems for them. As a side note Demonomicon of Iggwilv artciles are worth the $39 alone.

 

[Mark]

Even if you do not run a single adventure from it, ever, a subscription to Dungeon is the first tool any DM should have in their kit, IMO. The amount of bang for your buck a Dungeon subscription provides is unrivaled. It's essentially like getting to peek behind the DM screen of a few dozen designers and DMs each year for a few bucks a month. Reading many adventures by a variety of DMs helps you to think like a DM, even if you would never run a game in the same way or with the same material as any of the Dungeon contributors.

 

[Kyuss Knight]

But Dragon has The Order of the Stick

Plus Nodwick!

I think that both magazines are great. Dungeon has multiple adventures every month and I usualy find at least one of the articles in Dragon to be very useful. Couple that with the fact that I really enjoy being able to read a magazine that is written for my hobby and in my opinion they are well worth the price!

 

[Mark Hope]

To some degree, Dragon caters to players and Dungeon caters to DMs, although the dividing line isn't quite that cut and dried. I subscribe to both. I've been buying and reading Dragon for years and years, but only started getting Dungeon once they added content beyond the adventures.

Dungeon has adventures, which is a big draw, but I only have one group that meets twice a month, so it's not like I need lots and lots of adventures.

I have a huge supply of adventures from various sources and write most of my own, so the adventures in Dungeon aren't a great draw for me (although, that said, there have been some cracking pieces in the last couple of years and, of course, the Adventure Paths are top-notch, so that makes a big differences as far as I am concerned).

Dungeon also has the Campaign Workbook, however, which is a series of articles that provide plug-in elements for your game. These might be things like a dozen encounters on the road, sample NPCs for a city, a selection of different types of magical fountain, books from a library etc etc. Easy to use, always good quality and simple to drop into any game. These are a big plus for me. There is also the occasional Critical Threat, which is an NPC to use in-game - normally a cool concept fleshed out fully and sometimes an iconic figure of D&D lore (like Warduke or Evard or the Lord of Blades). Additionally, Dungeon sometimes features Backdrops, which are large-scale detailings of campaign areas (the city of Alhaster, the Isle of Dread etc). And, of course, there's Monte Cook's Dungeoncraft column, which is a neat bit of DMing advice from one of the best.

I haven't read Dragon in two decades. If it hasn't changed, I'm not sure if it's for me either. Way back then, it had plenty of things I don't need: fiction, flavor bits, reviews, and editorials on the state of the hobby. All things I can frankly get all over the Internet. What I like in my books is crunch. I'm into serious crunch. I don't mind the proliferation of new races, classes, PrCs, spells, monsters, etc. Does Dragon cater to that at all?

Well, a year or two ago, Dragon had loads and loads of crunch. That has ameliorated somewhat since the relaunch, and for the better imho. It still has the editorial, coverage of current gaming releases and the occasional bit of fiction (I like the former, skim the second and can't be bothered with the latter). Dragon does have flavour bits, but these are now always tied into some crunchy game element (article on mythology giving game stats for gods and monsters of Sumeria or Beowulf, for example). Dragon features two wonderful columns on a semi-regular basis - Core Beliefs, which thoroughly covers a core/Greyhawk deity, and the Demonomicon, which goes into gorgeous detail on a demon lord. Both have plenty of fluff supported by massively crunchy game elements - a great balance, if you ask me.
Dragon also features regular articles with new magic items, spells, equipment and ecologies (which are not the fluff-ridden types of yore, but far more focussed and useful - love the new ecoloy style!). Prestige classes and feats have been scaled back and now only appear when supported by solid context (such as demon-worshippers in the Demonomicon articles). There are also articles each month giving material that supports each of the four iconic class groups (adventurer, arcane, divine and warrior). These two-page spreads give class variants, feats, equipment, spells, domains and other cool crunch, as well as sometimes featuring more fluffy elements (sample barbarian totems, paladin codes, ranger wilderness techniques etc). Dragon also regularly has feature articles that cover various game elements in detail (giants, dragon hunting, bardic colleges, necromantic academies).

So, at the end of the day, it depends on your needs. If you are a DM looking for new game content to use and offer your players, I'd say go for Dragon. If you want stuff to build a campaign around and insert directly into established games, then go for Dungeon. Or get both . Either way, you won't regret it.