Need opinions on balance

[ChimericDream]

I'm rewriting a lot of the content in my homebrew to weed out the non-OGL stuff, so here's my own take on a couple spells. I had them as level 3 spells at first, but that just seemed a bit overpowered for level 3, so I bumped them up to 4.

Let me know what you all think.

Enlarge Person, Greater
Transmutation
Level: Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 round
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One humanoid creature
Duration: 1 min./level (D)
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

This spell causes the target humanoid creature to grow, quadrupling its height and multiplying its weight by 16. This increases the creature's size category by two steps. The target gains a +8 size bonus to Strength, a -4 size penalty to Dexterity (to a minimum of 1), and a -3 penalty on attack rolls and AC due to its increased size.

If there is not enough room for the desired growth, the creature grows as much as possible and may make a Strength check (with its new modifier) to break free of the confining space. If it is unable to break out, the creature is considered immobile, but is not harmed.

All equipment the creature is holding or carrying is enlarged im a similar fashion. Melee and projectile weapons affected by this spell deal more damage. Other magical properties a weapon or item may have are unaffected, however. Any enlarged item that leaves an enlarged creature's possession (including a projectile or thrown weapon) instantly returns to its normal size. This means that thrown weapons deal their normal damage, and projectiles deal damage based on the size of the weapon that fired them.

Multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack.
Enlarge person, greater counters and dispels reduce person or reduce person, greater.

Material Component: A pinch of powdered iron and a handful of fertilizer.

Reduce Person, Greater
Transmutation
Level: Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 round
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One humanoid creature
Duration: 1 min./level (D)
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

This spell causes the target humanoid creature to shrink, reducing its height by three quarters and dividing its weight by 16. This reduces the creature's size category by two steps. The target gains a +8 size bonus to Dexterity, a -4 size penalty to Strength (to a minimum of 1), and a +3 bonus on attack rolls and AC due to its increased size.

All equipment the creature is holding or carrying is shrunk in a similar fashion. Melee and projectile weapons affected by this spell deal less damage. Other magical properties a weapon or item may have are unaffected, however. Any reduced item that leaves a reduced creature's possession (including a projectile or thrown weapon) instantly returns to its normal size. This means that thrown weapons deal their normal damage, and projectiles deal damage based on the size of the weapon that fired them.

Multiple magical effects that reduce size do not stack.
Reduce person, greater counters and dispels enlarge person or enlarge person, greater.

Material Component: A pinch of powdered iron and a handful of weed killer.

 

[airwalkrr]

I don't think GEP should let you break out of a confining space. It should have the same limitation as EP in that regard.

 

[ChimericDream]

It is the same as EP in that regard. I made the change that it is rendered immobile if it can't break out of a space too small for it.

 

[ChimericDream]

Any opinions? I'm not sure whether silence means people think they're balanced or not.

 

[starwed]

There's a wu-jen spell in Complete Arcane which is level 8, and lets you get really, really large. (Either gargantuan or colossal.) I'd say this spell kind of interpolates between that one and enlarge person, so it sounds good to me.

The penalty for being a specific size isn't accurate, however. A medium->huge or small->large only takes a -2 penalty to attack/AC. And while small->diminutive gives +3 to hit/AC, medium->Tiny is only +2.

 

[Stalker0]

There's a wu-jen spell in Complete Arcane which is level 8, and lets you get really, really large. (Either gargantuan or colossal.) I'd say this spell kind of interpolates between that one and enlarge person, so it sounds good to me.

The penalty for being a specific size isn't accurate, however. A medium->huge or small->large only takes a -2 penalty to attack/AC. And while small->diminutive gives +3 to hit/AC, medium->Tiny is only +2.

True, but enlarge person doesn't work correctly either. Normally you get +4 to +8 str AND con bumps for size increases, so the argument shouldn't work for a greater version either.

To me, I would just double the bonuses from enlarge person. +4 str, -4 dex, -2 attack, ac, +2 squares to reach. Being huge already has a lot of other bonuses, +8 to grapple, trip, disarm, sunder, breaking objects. The 15 foot reach is a huge advantage in itself. And let us not forget the raw damage of weapon size increases. A 1d8 longsword becomes a 3d6 weapon when the person goes huge, that's +6 to damage right there. A 2d6 greatsword becomes 3d8, a 6.5 damage increase.

I mean, that's a HUGE buff, no pun intended

 

[ChimericDream]

Well, as I said before, I've decided to rewrite anything that isn't OGL for my homebrew so that I have nearly all original content. My main reason for doing this is to prevent lawsuits in the future.

Good call on the other benefits to enlarge/reduce (grapple bonuses, ac bonuses, reach, etc). However, I think I'd still like to make this just a little better than a bull's strength or equivalent. What do you think of these versions?

Enlarge Person, Greater
Transmutation
Level: Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 round
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One humanoid creature
Duration: 1 min./level (D)
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

This spell causes the target humanoid creature to grow, quadrupling its height and multiplying its weight by 16. This increases the creature's size category by two steps. The target gains a +6 size bonus to Strength, a -6 size penalty to Dexterity (to a minimum of 1), and a -3 penalty on attack rolls and AC due to its increased size.

If there is not enough room for the desired growth, the creature grows as much as possible and may make a Strength check (with its new modifier) to break free of the confining space. If it is unable to break out, the creature is considered immobile, but is not harmed.

All equipment the creature is holding or carrying is enlarged im a similar fashion. Melee and projectile weapons affected by this spell deal more damage. Other magical properties a weapon or item may have are unaffected, however. Any enlarged item that leaves an enlarged creature's possession (including a projectile or thrown weapon) instantly returns to its normal size. This means that thrown weapons deal their normal damage, and projectiles deal damage based on the size of the weapon that fired them.

Multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack.
Enlarge person, greater counters and dispels reduce person or reduce person, greater.

Material Component: A pinch of powdered iron and a handful of fertilizer.

Reduce Person, Greater
Transmutation
Level: Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 round
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One humanoid creature
Duration: 1 min./level (D)
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

This spell causes the target humanoid creature to shrink, reducing its height by three quarters and dividing its weight by 16. This reduces the creature's size category by two steps. The target gains a +6 size bonus to Dexterity, a -6 size penalty to Strength (to a minimum of 1), and a +3 bonus on attack rolls and AC due to its increased size.

All equipment the creature is holding or carrying is shrunk in a similar fashion. Melee and projectile weapons affected by this spell deal less damage. Other magical properties a weapon or item may have are unaffected, however. Any reduced item that leaves a reduced creature's possession (including a projectile or thrown weapon) instantly returns to its normal size. This means that thrown weapons deal their normal damage, and projectiles deal damage based on the size of the weapon that fired them.

Multiple magical effects that reduce size do not stack.
Reduce person, greater counters and dispels enlarge person or enlarge person, greater.

Material Component: A pinch of powdered iron and a handful of weed killer.

 

[starwed]

Normally you get +4 to +8 str AND con bumps for size increases, so the argument shouldn't work for a greater version either.

Nope. That's what you get when you advance a monster. It's not an intrinsic property of being a certain size. (As is evidenced by enlarge person.)

Size modifiers to AC and attack rolls are intrinsic to the size, however.