Can we judge how certain and obvious that is based on interactions between countries/tribes/nationalities/religions/ethnic groups in the real world?
D&D General Need wheat. Too dangerous. (worldbuilding)
Can we judge how certain and obvious that is based on interactions between countries/tribes/nationalities/religions/ethnic groups in the real world?
Micah Sweet
Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
4e fan then?
So...
Based on the quality of the soil, availability of water, crop lost to pest or pestilence, and diet of the people in question...
A family of 4 can grow everything they need to survive on about an acre of land.
This is particularly true in River Culture regions, where plentiful fishing and hunting were also easily accessible since humans controlled the water source other animals needed to survive. If you live at a River Delta (Particularly a -large- river delta, like the Mississippi or Nile) you'll wind up with incredibly fertile soil in abundance, lots of non-agrarian food options, and minimal need for Livestocking to maintain a comparatively easy life to, say, a farmer in Iowa.
Add in a long growing season based on relation to the equator and you get massive and plentiful yields from a fairly small square footage.
This is why Mesopotamia existed. It's why the Mississippi River Valley Cultures and Egypt as we know it existed. Indus River Valley Culture? Same deal.
Because when you scale production -beyond- what you need to survive in those places, you get massive quantities of excess that you can then use for trade.
And throughout history: Farmlands -were- protected. Not just by fences, though fences were freaking MANDATORY to minimize pest-loss, but also by things like 3-5 foot high stone walls and low stockades meant to make it harder for larger herbivores or attackers to get in. Not impossible, mind you, many a viking likely vaulted over a low stone wall and passed through fields toward churches or farmhouses... but harder.
And in places where these farmlands were communally held, they often were protected by more drastic measures, not just earthworks, but full sized stockades. And that's in -our- world.
In a world with Dragons and Ankhegs and Orcs it's perfectly reasonable to redesign society to protect their fields with high stone curtain walls, or to place the fields in the center of town with a "Donut" of city around it to form a protective barrier.
You're not limited to a medieval Europe stand-in with D&D. If something agrarian doesn't make sense to you, change how it works.
Though I would also like to note that most European kingdoms in history kept reserves of long-lasting foodstuffs like grain within the city walls so that even during years-long sieges they could maintain their populace. And let's not forget Heraklion which endured 21 years of siege. 16 of which had fairly continual shelling of the city in the 1640s and 50s.
Ever see the Baron Munchausen movie. It's the inspiration for the opening scene.
Between France and Smugglers enough goods were snuck into the city and enough was grown -within- the city to keep it going during a 21 year long siege. ON AN ISLAND. No escape but the sea.
Based on the quality of the soil, availability of water, crop lost to pest or pestilence, and diet of the people in question...
A family of 4 can grow everything they need to survive on about an acre of land.
This is particularly true in River Culture regions, where plentiful fishing and hunting were also easily accessible since humans controlled the water source other animals needed to survive. If you live at a River Delta (Particularly a -large- river delta, like the Mississippi or Nile) you'll wind up with incredibly fertile soil in abundance, lots of non-agrarian food options, and minimal need for Livestocking to maintain a comparatively easy life to, say, a farmer in Iowa.
Add in a long growing season based on relation to the equator and you get massive and plentiful yields from a fairly small square footage.
This is why Mesopotamia existed. It's why the Mississippi River Valley Cultures and Egypt as we know it existed. Indus River Valley Culture? Same deal.
Because when you scale production -beyond- what you need to survive in those places, you get massive quantities of excess that you can then use for trade.
And throughout history: Farmlands -were- protected. Not just by fences, though fences were freaking MANDATORY to minimize pest-loss, but also by things like 3-5 foot high stone walls and low stockades meant to make it harder for larger herbivores or attackers to get in. Not impossible, mind you, many a viking likely vaulted over a low stone wall and passed through fields toward churches or farmhouses... but harder.
And in places where these farmlands were communally held, they often were protected by more drastic measures, not just earthworks, but full sized stockades. And that's in -our- world.
In a world with Dragons and Ankhegs and Orcs it's perfectly reasonable to redesign society to protect their fields with high stone curtain walls, or to place the fields in the center of town with a "Donut" of city around it to form a protective barrier.
You're not limited to a medieval Europe stand-in with D&D. If something agrarian doesn't make sense to you, change how it works.
Though I would also like to note that most European kingdoms in history kept reserves of long-lasting foodstuffs like grain within the city walls so that even during years-long sieges they could maintain their populace. And let's not forget Heraklion which endured 21 years of siege. 16 of which had fairly continual shelling of the city in the 1640s and 50s.
Ever see the Baron Munchausen movie. It's the inspiration for the opening scene.
Between France and Smugglers enough goods were snuck into the city and enough was grown -within- the city to keep it going during a 21 year long siege. ON AN ISLAND. No escape but the sea.
There is no such thing as getting "too close" to that ;-)
My real reason for posting: isn't the "we must sacrifice someone from the city" what happens after you run out of sheep? The dragon prefers eating animals, but has a too large appetite.
Oofta
Legend
Can we judge how certain and obvious that is based on interactions between countries/tribes/nationalities/religions/ethnic groups in the real world?
Not to mention those Neanderthal, Australopithecus, Homo erectus, Homo floresiensis relatives that used to be wandering around. Apparently there were at least 21 human species that have been recognized.
One of the issues I have with this topic though is that it always comes back to someone throwing down the "racism" card as if that ends all discussion in a "I'm right you're wrong" sort of way.
So I'm just going to reiterate: the mods don't allow this topic. Can we go back to discussing whether or not anyone other than a first level apprentice can use magic to alter reality for the benefit of the society at large?
BookTenTiger
He / Him
Who says the dragon is eating the sheep?
After ten years of sacrifice, the dragon shows up with a dashing hand-knit sweater.
Depends on the monsters. If they dont care ]about the fields then its no different than farmers in africa or india growing crops while avoiding dangerous wildlife. Most grains require a lot of work to start an a lot if work at Harvest and some in the middle. Ther is some evidence that some hunter gathers planted thing they wanted to harvest then moved on fr hunting season and came back.
Unless the city is besieged by constant attack farming should be possible.
Sure! Let's do that!Can we judge how certain and obvious that is based on interactions between countries/tribes/nationalities/religions/ethnic groups in the real world?
It happened ALL THE FREAKING TIME. Like -so- often that it's not even worth questioning.
Cultures that lived near each other were actually far more likely to just mesh together and become a single entity than they were to battle over resources. We just don't -hear- about it so much because wars are more interesting. But yeah, most of the Semitic Tribes of Mesopotamia were fairly interwoven. Same thing with the Mississippi Valley and Indus River Valley. Yes. There were wars. The Midians were wiped off the map by violence, for example, their mark on history largely reserved to religious texts.
You don't build the City of Ur with 65,000 people in it by having all of them be related by Blood or Marriage (I.E. a Tribe).
I would have guessed that a lot of that "meshing together" involved one side surrendering sovereignty or identity to the other (whether by force or pragmatism). But, as you say, the wars get more coverage. Do they also happen all the freaking time too? At least enough to not make it certain and obvious that they'd work together?
Vaalingrade
Legend
Yes, but you don't have to be to prefer flavor beyond 'reason you murder them' and rich, flavorful abilities baked into state blocks.
In fact, one of the things I'm looking forward to see departing from 4e's flavor text (and other adjacent editions) is the sheer number of slavers and ex-slaves jam-packed into every monster manual.
