D&D General Need wheat. Too dangerous. (worldbuilding)

[UngainlyTitan]

The Forgotten Realms was created by an 8 year old American boy. At least that is when Ed wrote his first stories of it. He created the D&D setting at age 16 in 1975.

I think perhaps you give anyone too much credit for being able to produce a viable world that accounted for agriculture, commerce, etc at that age and in those years prior to the internet and the mass availability of knowledge that would allow such today. I know its fun to poke at Americans, but really, I don't think what you want could have been done by any child the world over in those years.

(And no, I'm not a fan of the Realms, but I do often run games set there because it is readily available and good enough setting for the feel that interests me.)

To be fair Tolkien fails hard at the economic, ecology and population dynamics level.

 

[LordEntrails]

To be fair Tolkien fails hard at the economic, ecology and population dynamics level.

Agreed. As has been said, never were these fantasy settings given any thought about "realities". Hence while we call them fiction and fantasy

 

[Silvercat Moonpaw]

Also, I'm not pointing these things out because I think people should be able to write them. I'm pointing them out because they fit in with the observation I once read about nations in these kinds of settings often being large because Americans are used to lots of distance between things.

 

[Oofta]

Also, I'm not pointing these things out because I think people should be able to write them. I'm pointing them out because they fit in with the observation I once read about nations in these kinds of settings often being large because Americans are used to lots of distance between things.

I gotta admit, back in the day I fell into that trap as well when designing my home campaign world. Eventually went back and broke it up into a variety of kingdoms and said that the old kingdom was similar to the Roman Empire at it's height. There's still evidence of the old kingdom, but now there are many, many individual countries in the same region and regions that don't really have a government outside of city states.

Good thing my setting I created when I was a teen was never published.

 

[Chaosmancer]

The Forgotten Realms was created by an 8 year old American boy. At least that is when Ed wrote his first stories of it. He created the D&D setting at age 16 in 1975.

I think perhaps you give anyone too much credit for being able to produce a viable world that accounted for agriculture, commerce, etc at that age and in those years prior to the internet and the mass availability of knowledge that would allow such today. I know its fun to poke at Americans, but really, I don't think what you want could have been done by any child the world over in those years.

(And no, I'm not a fan of the Realms, but I do often run games set there because it is readily available and good enough setting for the feel that interests me.)

And he's kept writing in and refining it since, still at it at the age of 61. So treating it like it is still the product of an 8 year old is a bit disingenuous

 

[Scott Christian]

I have always divided lands by civilizations, locales, and wilds.
Civilizations need not be giant cities. But are lands that are tame. Watched for the most part.
Locales are places people know, such as a ruin. But most dare not tread there, for there is no reason or it is rumored to be dangerous.
Wilds are unknown. Maybe a handful of people know, but tracking down info on the area is tough.

Farmland falls into the civilization areas. Some of it, like ranching, can drift over to the locales or edge of the wilds.

 

[LordEntrails]

And he's kept writing in and refining it since, still at it at the age of 61. So treating it like it is still the product of an 8 year old is a bit disingenuous

Not an 8 year old, but a 16 year old. When he laid out the foundations (for himself). Besides, by that time his vision was established, at least in his head.

Ed has shown anything but a willingness to deviate from the vision he has of the Realms. Hence the return of the original Durnan, Halaster, etc. Besides, it is hard to argue with success. Apparently very few D&D gamers actually care if the setting has a viable economic model to support it. So what would motivate a change from success? Sounds to me like a risk with virtually no reward.

 

[Cadence]

Besides, it is hard to argue with success. Apparently very few D&D gamers actually care if the setting has a viable economic model to support it.

Given that a lot of real world governments don't seem to have viable economic or agricultural models either, I'm not that upset (at least relatively speaking) when a game fudges things

 

[LordEntrails]

Also, I'm not pointing these things out because I think people should be able to write them. I'm pointing them out because they fit in with the observation I once read about nations in these kinds of settings often being large because Americans are used to lots of distance between things.

I always enjoy this observation. In a significant way, it is certainly true. But, it also assumes that Americans are all the same in this perspective. And we are not. There are certainly regional aspects. A couple of amusing (to me) stories to point this out;

My maternal Grandmother lived in upstate New York. When visiting her as a child, I remember us planning days in advance to go visit one of my Aunts in Vermont. It was a big trip. We took water, blankets, made sure the car was filled with gas, all that. It was about a 1 hour drive.

I grew up in the Southwest. I remember my Grandmother visiting us, and she was astonished that the closest shopping mall was 45 minutes away (at the time, late '70's). High school was a 45 minute drive, without rush hour traffic, then it was an hour to 1:15. Those drives were daily occurrences to us.

Sometime in the '00's I was working in Albuquerque, New Mexico, and the siblings of a co-workers wife were coming from the northeast to visit for a 3 day weekend. And named all the places in New Mexico they had heard of and wanted to visit. They had no idea the distances involved. After all, they were all in the same state, so it couldn't be much driving right? He mapped it for them, it was something like 60 hours of straight driving. And they went "Oh".

America may be a melting pot, but it is far from homogenous!

I'm fortunate, I've travelled both as a kid with my family and for work. I understand distances, travel times, and scale. For those who want to understand how big their world/region is compared to other parts of the world, check out this website, really cool. Compare Countries With This Simple Tool

 

[Ancalagon]

Well, this is CoS, which came out a long time before they decided Ravenloft relied on nightmare logic.

ah, a "fond" memory of my teenage years playing ravenloft. We rotated GMs, and 2 of my friends/fellow players were obsessed with Ravenloft. They were not happy when I pointed out that forever winter (a feature of a domain, we were playing an adventure) would result in everyone starving from hunter. "they are hunting rabbits" they answered "oh yes, and what are those eating??

"but that's not the point". Sure... so make sure your story holds together so that we don't fail to notice the point because the nonsense either breaks suspension of disbelief, or worse, is seen as deeply significant by the players because surely no one is silly enough to forget that people need food...