Negative initiative numbers

[techno]

With surprise, is it possible in DNDNext to have a negative initiative number for the entire combat? That is how I am reading it, but it seems a bit strange.

 

[thalmin]

No explanation given, but this could mean no action for the first round.

 

[Sanglorian]

That's my interpretation too.

But it isn't strange to me. Initiative only matters relative to others in the combat: An orc at -10 and a fighter at 5 is no different to an orc at 1 and a fighter at 16.

 

[thalmin]

If my character is surprised and my initiative would have been a 12 before the penalty, I just don't get to act until we get down to 12 on the second round. However, if my adjusted roll would have been 26, I might still get to act before someone in the surprising group who rolled a 5 or less.

 

[techno]

If my character is surprised and my initiative would have been a 12 before the penalty, I just don't get to act until we get down to 12 on the second round. However, if my adjusted role would have been 26, I might still get to act before someone in the surptising group who roled a 5 or less.

If this is the case, they need to make this much more clear in the rules.

 

[thalmin]

That's why we are playtesting. To find the problem areas.

 

[keterys]

I wouldn't assume that a negative initiative result somehow means no action, or somehow changes your iniatitive. It's not even a good house rule idea, because it would mean that surprised people get acted on twice before they go most of the time.

As far as I can tell, it just means you act later in the round. Same as it has for the last 12 years. Sure, the -20 init makes things more likely, but you could have a 1st level character with a 6 Dex roll a 1 and end up on -1. Just means they're SLOW

 

[Charwoman Gene]

Surprise is JUST -20 to initiative.
Assuming everyone has +1 initiative.

Sample Scenario
Goblin 1
Goblin 2
Goblin 3
Fighter - Surprised
Mage - Surprised
Rogue
Cleric

Roll initiative-

G1 rolls 10 + 1 = 11
G2 rolls 2 + 1 = 3
G3 rolls 18 + 1 = 19
F rolls 20 + 1 - 20 = 0
M rolls 6 + 1 - 20 = -13
R rolls 14 + 1 = 15
C rolls 9 + 1 = 10

The first round in order...
G3 (19)
R (15)
G1 (11)
C (10)
G2 (3)
F (0)
M (-13)

The second Round in Order...
G3 (19)
R (15)
G1 (11)
C (10)
G2 (3)
F (0)
M (-13)

Surprise is JUST an initiative penalty. I love it.

 

[thalmin]

I wouldn't assume that a negative initiative result somehow means no action, or somehow changes your iniatitive. It's not even a good house rule idea, because it would mean that surprised people get acted on twice before they go most of the time.

As far as I can tell, it just means you act later in the round. Same as it has for the last 12 years. Sure, the -20 init makes things more likely, but you could have a 1st level character with a 6 Dex roll a 1 and end up on -1. Just means they're SLOW

Why twice? There is no Surprise Round any more.

 

[keterys]

Why twice? There is no Surprise Round any more.

_Exactly_. Hence the two posts earlier that a negative initiative might mean you don't act in the first round, instead setting you some init in the second round - are really bad house rules, cause they can lead to someone with a better initiative than you acting in the first round and second rounds before you.