New adventures from Wizards - policy reversal!!!

Just wondering from those who know a little more about publishing. Is it more profitable to release a series of modules, say like the adventure path series, which will take the characters from levels 1-20 in several small books published separately? Or is it better to sell one mega module such as Return to The Temple of Elemental Evil?

I would think the small modules would be more profitable as the are less pages, black and white, and could be written for a higher profit margin. The downside is that if the first adventure sucks then no one will buy the following ones.

I dont know. Guess thats why I am asking :D
 

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This would be cool but only worth it to me if they do supermodules. I really prefer things like THE BANEWARRENS, VAULT OF LARIN KARR and RTTOEE than the pamphlet modules.
 

Nightfall said:
So far I think it's just the fact people are scared when they use a Necromancer Game mod. Why? Cause it's TPK all over the place! ;) Ah. The joys of fear and despair from players. Makes me shiver with joy.
I'll go ahead and disagree with that idea. While I'm sure NG is doing great, their modules were just horrible IMO. It's not hard to make a 1st level dungeon a killer dungeon by filling it with CR5 monsters and Instakill traps. That is not 1st edition feel to me.

Anyway small rant on the goodness of at least ONE company to make a profit (somewhat) doing great mods. Cheers to the Necro guys! :)

I think this is the crux of it. There is money to make in adventure's, if the company has small overhead or makes a high enough quality product that they draw in buyers. Frankly, none of them did so for me.
Besides GR's trilogy of adventures, I have been disappointed in almost every adventure I bought from a third part. THAT is why I don't buy more. I can usually get useful stuff from Dungeon, so why waste my money on second rate adventures with no original ideas?
Might be harsh, but IMO the d20 market stumbling is solely due to the secondary players making so much trash. That goes for adventures and most other products. :)
 

I think this is great.
I wonder if they will be new adventures or updates to the classic one.
I imagine updating the classic ones to 3.5 would be easy enough and it wouldn't be too hard to change them from one setting to another by just changing the flavor text.
I am the kind of DM which normally only runs modules so this would be great to me.
 

Four color hardbound books the size of PsiH is what I would buy. I'd pay say $30-40 for them. They should contain great NPCs and locations (preferably re-usable) and some macguffin to chase. It's not much harder than that. If there was a series I'd buy them all.
 

broghammerj said:
Just wondering from those who know a little more about publishing. Is it more profitable to release a series of modules, say like the adventure path series, which will take the characters from levels 1-20 in several small books published separately? Or is it better to sell one mega module such as Return to The Temple of Elemental Evil?
I don't have any experience, but I think a major problem with releasing a definite series of adventures is that the audience will be steadily dropping with each releases - you won't find many people buying part 2 that didn't buy part 1, but not all of those who bought part 1 will buy part 2.

Also, bigger stuff tends to sell better, which is why they have to jack up the price of the small ones immensely - compare Shadows of the Last War ($10-ish, 32 page stapled book, black/white) to Complete Divine ($30, 192 pages hardcover, full color). Complete Divine has a price-per-page of about half that of SotLW, while also being hardcover and full color. That's possible because LOTS more people will buy Complete Divine.
 

Eric Anondson said:
Even more fascinating, IMO, is the impact of the 800 pound gorilla that is the Living Greyhawk player network on sales. I have heard of numbers up to 20,000 players. When the LG campaign adds a particular WotC book to the campaign, there are thousands of players who have a good reason to get it, and most usually do!
Amen to to that!

I watched two of Paradigm Concept's Arcanis books sell out right in front of me in real time. Two of 'em. On Sunday.

All because (or at least mostly because) of the Living Arcanis network.
 

broghammerj said:
Just wondering from those who know a little more about publishing. Is it more profitable to release a series of modules, say like the adventure path series, which will take the characters from levels 1-20 in several small books published separately? Or is it better to sell one mega module such as Return to The Temple of Elemental Evil?
Speaking from personal experience with MonkeyGod Enterprises (MGE)...

MGE is no longer publishing d20 anything anymore because they published all kinds of d20 modules. Different levels, different settings, varying levels of quality. I thought they got better as time went on, but then I'm biased.

There's a few problems with publishing modules as a d20 publisher:
  • 1) Modules divide up your market. Only Dungeon Masters need modules. Players AND Dungeon Masters need rules. Modules divide your market by four, five, or six. That's like chopping up crumbs after the pie's already been eaten -- less money to go around in a niche market.
  • 2) Modules that are generic don't require any brand loyalty. Everyone wants modules, but generic modules don't create any connection between the publisher and the purchaser. MGE never had an established game world and ultimately that hurt them. Established game worlds (like Arcanis, from Paradigm Concepts) sell adventures because they are, in some sense, chapters set in a universe. It's likely reading one big novel. That generates loyalty and interest and, most importantly, lift in the purchases of other products. Like this adventure? Maybe you want to buy the rulebook for that setting.
  • 3) Modules do the imagination for a game about imagination. It's sort of like selling tapes of past sports events. Part of the excitement of watching a sport is the participation in real time. Similarly, part of the excitement of role-playing is creation. Not every DM wants modules and some only want particular parts to incorporate into their campaigns. Which is certainly understandable, but also makes purchasing trends extremely unpredictable. Maybe one DM buys a book because it has demons in it and his campaign has a demon invasion going on, but the other doesn't have demons at all in his campaign. On the other hand, a general book of rules will probably have something that somebody (player or DM) is interested in. Rulebooks cast a wider net.
  • 4) Distribution is king. This is an awful, ugly, horrible truth -- great art, fantastic writing, mean absolutely zilcho if the right distribution is missing. MGE didn't have it. Since modules have such a small audience, it's critical it hits the maximum number of potential customers as possible. There's a handful of publishers who can do that.
  • 5) Dungeon exists. Dungeon produces, for a much better cost ratio, a lot of very slick, very focused adventures for Dungeons & Dragons. It's really hard to compete with that.

I'm sure there's more reasons, but ultimately generic modules for generic D&D (the kind that can be used by any DM for any campaign) require a specific mix of elements, and I think only the largest publishers are able to pull it off. Everything else is brand-specific products marketed to a loyal group of consumers who have already been "screened" by other products and are thus more willing to buy modules set in that campaign setting.
 
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Couple of thoughts--


Mods Don't Make Money: Hoowee. WotC didn't make mods for so long because they didn't make enough money. There's a big difference. One bucket, many buckets, who cares? You're still catching the same amount of rain. And that wasn't enough of a profit margin for WotC. They aren't "loss leaders"--they pay for themselves. Many times over. They just don't bring down the amount of revenue WotC was looking for. The product simply didn't pull in the millions of dollars that, at that time, Hasbro and WotC expected from their efforts. I call that greed. And too many companies have demonstrated that the small profit margin is just fine for them. And now, WotC has come around since their subsequent products haven't done as well, and think they can mop up filling a gap that they themselves defined years ago as being sub-par. This is a classic "eating crow" moment, folks.

RPGA and WotC: Make no mistake--RPGA is simply a marketing tool from WotC's perspective. It didn't used to be that way, but now it is. It doesn't "cost" money for RPGA to exist--WotC employs less than a handful of RPGA employees, and all the writing and campaign coordinating is done by volunteers. Those RPGA/WotC employees are paperpushers and beancounters--the heart of the RPGA really has nothing to do with WotC at all, and exists on a level of stupefying volunteerism that is tantamount to a miracle. WotC doesn't deserve any credit for the success of RPGA--that was hard-earned by coordinators totally outside the realm of WotC. And RPGA has demonstrated the dire need for adventures for players, as they produce over 250 adventures each year, written by avid players that believe in what they're doing (some might say a little too much sometimes...). If anything, WotC's decision to publish mods is a result of finally waking up and coming to the party a little too late...

Dungeon Magazine: By far the best value a DM could hope for. Which is too bad, because with WotC publishing adventures, young DMs will glom onto their products and push Dungeon aside. It's bound to suffer as a result.

Size and Type of Adventures: Personally, I don't want huge adventures. I find it hard to sustain interest in an adventure after an evening's entertainment. Taking a few months to complete a dungeon just seems to smack of hack'n'slash to me... Now a story arc that is a result of a campaign setting or multiple adventures is something different. But endless mods turn me off. The regular size is just right, thank-you very much. As far as categorizing the type of mods--well, where do you draw the line? And how do you systemize categorization in a method that everyone will find understandable and acceptable? How do you set definitions as to what "role-playing intensive" means? Or "Dungeon Crawl" for that matter? Too wishy-washy to work, IMO...

Campaign-specific Adventures: It must be fairly obvious by now that "Uber-ron" is now the penultimate setting for WotC. It's their baby, their cash-cow, their answer to everything everyone wanted. It seems to have been deemed a great success. Now why would they want to invest money into publishing adventures for anything else when they know they will have an almost guaranteed sales success story with their shiney new setting? The FR setting has been pushed aside by those looking for something different (and frankly at this point it's practically impossible to start any new home group without plunking down major cash for a complete picture of the setting through setting-specific sourcebooks anyway). Greyhawk has been given to RPGA. You won't see any adventures or books or anything for that. Unless they launch another setting (yeah right), it's almost a given that any potential adventures will be Uber-ron-centric.

While I applaud WotC for finally waking up and realizing that their numerous sourcebooks of rules were starting to break the backs of their DMs (without which no gaming could happen) and catering too much to players that were looking for the next shiney new trick (and don't know how to play the game beyond min/maxing and powergaming), I also feel like this simply smaks of another marketing ploy to exploit a segment of the market that apparently wasn't worth their time in the past. And now that they've convinced everyone else not to publish adventures, and WotC needs the money, they'll lower themselves to "filling a gap in the market".

Sorry if this is negative, but please remember WotC doesn't do anything without being compelled to by profit. They're a business, and as so many people have so often pointed out before, that's apparently what business is for in the contemporary era. Before we "celebrate" this as a wonderful thing, take a moment to think about why they're really doing it. Before you foist over your hard earned money, think about the dozens of other d20 companies that are putting out adventures as well, and realize they can't afford to be driven by profit margins--their products have to be quality in order to sell at all nowdays. When 3.0 first came out that wasn't the case, and we had poor products all over the place. But now anyone can do an adventure, and the only thing that seperates the good from the bad is the belief in the product by the company that puts it out.

I'm not sure I'm willing to believe that WotC believes in their product any more than the amount of profit it generates for them.

And in relation to adventures, that worries me.

My two coppers.

Coreyartus
 
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