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<blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 8857246" data-attributes="member: 18"><p>I must have missed the earlier post - that is good to hear.</p><p></p><p>I'd still be unsurprised if they didn't make it in until a post-launch patch, as my suspicion level remains high with companies who "hold back" stuff for launch which isn't actual "content" (story, levels, etc.), but it does sound like they're somewhat serious about working on it at least.</p><p></p><p>I mean, this is kind of true, but it's also kind of not true.</p><p></p><p>Like, "massive precedent", I mean, jeez, there are very few game types with "massive precedent".</p><p></p><p>But D&D (and closely related) games based on actual games systems have a pretty long history in videogaming. Obviously the '80s and '90s were absolutely rife with AD&D-based games where in the vast majority of cases, the rules were primary (even real-time things like EotB I'd make a case that the rules seemed pretty important), and then of course we have Baldur's Gate 1 & 2 and all that, Neverwinter Nights 1 & 2 and a bazillion expansions, particularly for NWN1, but even NWN2 got 3, and so there were games like this either coming out or with new content up to 2009. Temple of Elemental Evil was in there too but beyond a buggy mess so I think can be ignored.</p><p></p><p>Things faltered with D&D because of the awful licencing deal Hasbro absolutely idiotically made with Interplay and then Atari, essentially licencing D&D to Atari "in perpetuity" for a pathetic sum (I forget how much, but like, low double-digit millions I think). In 2009 Hasbro launched a lawsuit over what was, essentially, it's own stupidity, but luckily also Atari's failure to comply with the terms of the contract, and got the license back in 2011 (I think), before deciding to sit on it for a bit (perhaps reasonably).</p><p></p><p>That's when we got the big gap in games like this. Pathfinder: Kingmaker didn't actually come out until 2018. There were no real 4E games because of the timing of all this and Atari being rubbish (something I maintain is a pity because with BG3-level adaptions it could have been amazing), and yes, the only previous 5E-based game was absolute junk, and not very 5E-based, as I understand it.</p><p></p><p>But I think this was more to do with Hasbro/WotC being massive screw-ups with digital strategy rather than anything else.</p><p></p><p>EDIT - There is another underlying issue, which is due to Bioware's success with Dragon Age, which was <em>explicitly</em> created as an in-house IP equivalent to D&D, which couldn't be "messed with" in the way Bioware seemed to think WotC had messed with them on BG1/2/PS:T/IWD etc. This demonstrated to most AAA gaming companies that you didn't really need someone else's licence unless that licence was insanely huge (D&D now is, but only as of like, last year - before that it was only getting that way).</p><p></p><p>Thus the vast majority of companies who want to licence existing systems/IPs are either lower-end AAA-type companies, or AA-type companies, as we see very clearly with Games Workshop's licencing. Total War Warhammer is the only series made by a "serious AAA" company (with the arguable exception of Dawn of War but DoW3 was a mega-flop, and not the good kind), and that's only happened because Creative Assembly weren't actually that huge when the got the Warhammer licence, it's success is part of what transformed them from a small AAA to a pretty massive one (that and other licences, like Alien). Since they got big it's notable that they haven't done any further licenced games except to continue Warhammer (but they're making a mint on that and they literally promise-promised, not imaginary-gamer-promised to do a trilogy all the way back in like 2012), and are repeatedly trying to come out with their own IPs (like the dire-looking Hyenas).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ruin Explorer, post: 8857246, member: 18"] I must have missed the earlier post - that is good to hear. I'd still be unsurprised if they didn't make it in until a post-launch patch, as my suspicion level remains high with companies who "hold back" stuff for launch which isn't actual "content" (story, levels, etc.), but it does sound like they're somewhat serious about working on it at least. I mean, this is kind of true, but it's also kind of not true. Like, "massive precedent", I mean, jeez, there are very few game types with "massive precedent". But D&D (and closely related) games based on actual games systems have a pretty long history in videogaming. Obviously the '80s and '90s were absolutely rife with AD&D-based games where in the vast majority of cases, the rules were primary (even real-time things like EotB I'd make a case that the rules seemed pretty important), and then of course we have Baldur's Gate 1 & 2 and all that, Neverwinter Nights 1 & 2 and a bazillion expansions, particularly for NWN1, but even NWN2 got 3, and so there were games like this either coming out or with new content up to 2009. Temple of Elemental Evil was in there too but beyond a buggy mess so I think can be ignored. Things faltered with D&D because of the awful licencing deal Hasbro absolutely idiotically made with Interplay and then Atari, essentially licencing D&D to Atari "in perpetuity" for a pathetic sum (I forget how much, but like, low double-digit millions I think). In 2009 Hasbro launched a lawsuit over what was, essentially, it's own stupidity, but luckily also Atari's failure to comply with the terms of the contract, and got the license back in 2011 (I think), before deciding to sit on it for a bit (perhaps reasonably). That's when we got the big gap in games like this. Pathfinder: Kingmaker didn't actually come out until 2018. There were no real 4E games because of the timing of all this and Atari being rubbish (something I maintain is a pity because with BG3-level adaptions it could have been amazing), and yes, the only previous 5E-based game was absolute junk, and not very 5E-based, as I understand it. But I think this was more to do with Hasbro/WotC being massive screw-ups with digital strategy rather than anything else. EDIT - There is another underlying issue, which is due to Bioware's success with Dragon Age, which was [I]explicitly[/I] created as an in-house IP equivalent to D&D, which couldn't be "messed with" in the way Bioware seemed to think WotC had messed with them on BG1/2/PS:T/IWD etc. This demonstrated to most AAA gaming companies that you didn't really need someone else's licence unless that licence was insanely huge (D&D now is, but only as of like, last year - before that it was only getting that way). Thus the vast majority of companies who want to licence existing systems/IPs are either lower-end AAA-type companies, or AA-type companies, as we see very clearly with Games Workshop's licencing. Total War Warhammer is the only series made by a "serious AAA" company (with the arguable exception of Dawn of War but DoW3 was a mega-flop, and not the good kind), and that's only happened because Creative Assembly weren't actually that huge when the got the Warhammer licence, it's success is part of what transformed them from a small AAA to a pretty massive one (that and other licences, like Alien). Since they got big it's notable that they haven't done any further licenced games except to continue Warhammer (but they're making a mint on that and they literally promise-promised, not imaginary-gamer-promised to do a trilogy all the way back in like 2012), and are repeatedly trying to come out with their own IPs (like the dire-looking Hyenas). [/QUOTE]
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