New Class: Istari

[DQDesign]

I have just uploaded New Class: Istari to the downloads area.

I think people playing fifth edition in Middle Earth need a file like this. What do you think about it?

You can find the file here in the downloads section. Please use this thread for comments.

 

[RhaezDaevan]

This class has very little combat effectiveness, which seems out of place for what are effectively angels in human form. Looks more like a cheerleader class, which bards and clerics already do well and also kick ass while doing it. I'm assuming since it's middle-earth the normal caster classes are all banned? So it'd just be barbarian, fighter, rogue, istari and maybe a non-magical ranger variant?

They need a little something extra for combat. Why not extra attack, divine strike, or maybe divine smite? Possibly multiple of those options? Also allow them to cast a spell and make an attack as an action.

Also, if they're meant to be out-of-combat masters, then why only give them 2 skills? Perhaps 4 like rogues or 3 like bard?

It just seems more like half of a class. Also, it could use a sub-class, which perhaps is where you'd add the extra features it's missing. Maybe one focuses on combat, another spellcasting and a third can use skills to better effect (combat uses for usually non-combat skill?).

 

[DQDesign]

This class has very little combat effectiveness, which seems out of place for what are effectively angels in human form. Looks more like a cheerleader class, which bards and clerics already do well and also kick ass while doing it. I'm assuming since it's middle-earth the normal caster classes are all banned? So it'd just be barbarian, fighter, rogue, istari and maybe a non-magical ranger variant?

They need a little something extra for combat. Why not extra attack, divine strike, or maybe divine smite? Possibly multiple of those options? Also allow them to cast a spell and make an attack as an action.

Also, if they're meant to be out-of-combat masters, then why only give them 2 skills? Perhaps 4 like rogues or 3 like bard?

It just seems more like half of a class. Also, it could use a sub-class, which perhaps is where you'd add the extra features it's missing. Maybe one focuses on combat, another spellcasting and a third can use skills to better effect (combat uses for usually non-combat skill?).

The class shall have little "combat effectiveness" if you want a game experience coherent with Tolkien's works. Istari, although possibly "angels in human form", have strict limits about interfering in Free People affairs, limits commanded by Valar. Those limits explicitly includes direct warfare (and combat), because Valar are aware of betrayal risk (see Saruman, for example).
I'll use Istari in my Middle Earth 5E campaign in substitution of all other spellcasting classes, together with fighter, rogue (thief only) and non-spellcasting ranger. Barbarians are out in Third Age, because Dunlendings are Saruman's allies.
But I'm talking only about my tastes, that are far from universal.
Summarising: in my opinion no character should have "combat effectiveness" in a Third Age campaing, just because that game focus it is not combat (like lovecraftian campaigns).

 

[RhaezDaevan]

I'm guessing you didn't enjoy the movie versions of the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings, as those have Gandalf doing plenty of combat stuff. Anyone who picks the class will want to be like Gandalf more often than not. The movie Gandalf.

The majority of my suggestions just involved powering up their weapon use a bit, and being able to cast some support magic while also attacking with a weapon. Nothing too crazy.

You also haven't said why they don't get more skills. Gandalf would have quite a few proficient skills.

And no thoughts on adding subclasses? Scrap my earlier ideas for them. Come up with your own. Use Radagast, Saruman and Gandalf as ideas on how Istari can be differentiated through a subclass.

 

[Khaalis]

I'm really not trying to be a troll here, but this needs to be said. If you want a true game geared for Middle Earth, D&D is really not the best system for you.

I would seriously suggest you check out The One Ring by Cubicle 7.

 

[RhaezDaevan]

I'm really not trying to be a troll here, but this needs to be said. If you want a true game geared for Middle Earth, D&D is really not the best system for you.

I would seriously suggest you check out The One Ring by Cubicle 7.

I was trying to avoid that, but since my ideas fall on deaf ears I'll just say ditto!

 

[DQDesign]

I was trying to avoid that, but since my ideas fall on deaf ears I'll just say ditto!

So you don't need more answers from me.
Regarding the One Ring, it is authored by Italian people. I'm Italian, so I know the game sufficiently. It is impossible playing Istari using TOR corebook because, except for dwarvish runes, no rules for magic are provided in it.

 

[Khaalis]

So you don't need more answers from me.
Regarding the One Ring, it is authored by Italian people. I'm Italian, so I know the game sufficiently. It is impossible playing Istari using TOR corebook because, except for dwarvish runes, no rules for magic are provided in it.

IMHO, this is as it should be. To be honest a game in Middle Earth shouldn't allow Istari as PCs. You have a party with a bunch of lowly middling power mortals and then throw in what basically equates to a Demigod. Istari are ridiculously powerful. Istari only "look" human. They are in fact exraplanar in origin and have far superior strength and mental powers.

"Istari" wizards ARE Maiar, spirits of the same order as the Valar but slightly lower > Maiar and Valar are lesser Ainur > Ainur are the immortal spirits existing before Creation - the first beings made of the thought of Eru Ilúvatar.

Eru Ilúvatar is the All God, the Creator > Ainur are the first creations, the highest choir of angels and often worshiped as Gods themselves > Valar are a middle choir of Angels > Maiar are the lower choir of angels that most often choose to interface with the mortal world. They're still demigods.

The "rules" of the Valar should be set aside and cannot be used as a "balancing factor", for this is exactly what happened with Sauron who is also Maiar Istari aka a Demigod of Ainur Morgoth (higher angel or intermediate deity).


In D&D terms that is like having 4 humans playing in the party with the demigod Thor as their fighter. Or in the FR a bunch of level 1 humans with Elminster, the Chosen Immortal of the goddess Mystra as their party wizard.

JMHO.

 

[RhaezDaevan]

So you don't need more answers from me.

That's fine, but it makes me wonder why you bothered to post the class if you didn't want any critiquing or suggestions for improvement.

 

[DQDesign]

Khaalis, I know who Istari are.
The "rules" of the Valar can be used as a "balancing factor", IMO, because PCs in a Middle Earth campaign are assumed to respect them. No PC should be allowed to play a traitor like Sauron or Saruman. In other words the things about heroes written in the Decipher LOTR RPG corebook should be always clear in players' mind.
In D&D terms no evil-aligned PC should be allowed. Incidentally, this fact is encouraged by 5E PHB (also by 4E PHB, but it is another issue. Anyway, evil characters are not recommended since 2008).