Griffith Dragonlake
First Post
Rather than call this class a mage or all-magician, why not … Magic-User ?!?
New Class: Mage
- Thread starter Tequila Sunrise
- Start date
Herzog
Adventurer
Interesting. I used that exact mechanic (prepares each spell he wants to cast that day once each, and then spontaneously casts them that day as if they were a sorcerer's spells known) for the 'Mage' class I constructed for my homebrew campaign.
I did not, however, give them access to all spells (just wizard spells) and he does not automatically gain new spells (has to find them/research them).
However, this is balanced (in my campaign) by the fact that using magic is extremely hazardous, since it might attract the attention of high-level mages (20+) that loathe competition, and could very easily get you killed on the spot.
Even then, I got comments about how to increase other classes to let them 'keep up'.
Using the class you described in a standard setting, and competing with Core classes, would make this class way too powerfull.
Using one of the alternative spells/day lists mentioned above could help, but even then you might want to think about trimming him even further, or start looking for ways to increase the abilities of the other Core Classes.
Herzog
I did not, however, give them access to all spells (just wizard spells) and he does not automatically gain new spells (has to find them/research them).
However, this is balanced (in my campaign) by the fact that using magic is extremely hazardous, since it might attract the attention of high-level mages (20+) that loathe competition, and could very easily get you killed on the spot.
Even then, I got comments about how to increase other classes to let them 'keep up'.
Using the class you described in a standard setting, and competing with Core classes, would make this class way too powerfull.
Using one of the alternative spells/day lists mentioned above could help, but even then you might want to think about trimming him even further, or start looking for ways to increase the abilities of the other Core Classes.
Herzog
Tequila Sunrise
Adventurer
Thanks for all the input!
Due to feedback on this and other boards, I've nerfed the class. No more spontaneous casting, and instead focus on the class' magical nature. A mage radiates magic with a strength equal to an item of the same caster level. Additionally, the mage gains a progression of weak utility spells usable at will:
2: Prestidigitation
4: Detect Magic
6: Read Magic
8: Nystul's Magic Aura
10: Alter Self
12: Arcane Sight
14: Identify
16: Telepathy 100 ft.
18: Polymorph (operates at -10 caster level)
20: Immortality
Oh and to settle any problems with spell level discrepancies I'll add the following stipulation: if a spell exists on multiple spell lists, the mage uses the lower of spell levels, but only from the spell list of a full (9 spell levels) caster. So Plane Shift would be a 5th level spell, but Suggestion would be a 3rd level spell.
Due to feedback on this and other boards, I've nerfed the class. No more spontaneous casting, and instead focus on the class' magical nature. A mage radiates magic with a strength equal to an item of the same caster level. Additionally, the mage gains a progression of weak utility spells usable at will:
2: Prestidigitation
4: Detect Magic
6: Read Magic
8: Nystul's Magic Aura
10: Alter Self
12: Arcane Sight
14: Identify
16: Telepathy 100 ft.
18: Polymorph (operates at -10 caster level)
20: Immortality
Oh and to settle any problems with spell level discrepancies I'll add the following stipulation: if a spell exists on multiple spell lists, the mage uses the lower of spell levels, but only from the spell list of a full (9 spell levels) caster. So Plane Shift would be a 5th level spell, but Suggestion would be a 3rd level spell.
Tequila Sunrise
Adventurer
Because the mage is not a generic class.Griffith Dragonlake said:
I don't care for prestige classes, especially ones with...no HP?! This project actually originated from my favorite published class, the mystic theurge, and its problems. So thanks for the suggestion but it would just irritate me further to have a PrC that requires even more prep than the MT, but still does not truly create the all-magician archetype that I want.wolfpunk said:
That's an awesome class! Myself, I'm not a fan of MAD...even favored soul level MAD.Nifft said:
Pielorinho
Iron Fist of Pelor
Tequila, are you trying to come up with a class comparable in power to the other D&D classes? Because I read this class as having the following disadvantages compared to a mage:
1) No familiar.
2) No bonus feats at 5, 10, and 15.
The class has the following advantages:
1) Access to all spell lists.
2) Spontaneous casting.
3) Spontaneous addition of metamagic without increased casting time.
4) Extreme flexibility with feats such as Spell Focus.
5) Immortality.
What the class loses are relatively minor things; what the class gains are all tremendously huge things. I can't imagine that in a game with this class and the wizard class, anybody would choose to play a wizard.
Getting rid of the spontaneous casting is a good start. I'd also get rid of advantages 3 and 4 and 5, AND I would add in the stipulation that the class has the slowest spell progression in the game: instead of gaining a new level every other level, they gain a new level of spells every third level, or possibly even every fourth level. Every third level might be best: they'd gain second level spells at third level, third at sixth, up to seventh at 18th level. This would still be extraordinarily powerful, and still might be better than a wizard or sorcerer, but not by as much.
Daniel
1) No familiar.
2) No bonus feats at 5, 10, and 15.
The class has the following advantages:
1) Access to all spell lists.
2) Spontaneous casting.
3) Spontaneous addition of metamagic without increased casting time.
4) Extreme flexibility with feats such as Spell Focus.
5) Immortality.
What the class loses are relatively minor things; what the class gains are all tremendously huge things. I can't imagine that in a game with this class and the wizard class, anybody would choose to play a wizard.
Getting rid of the spontaneous casting is a good start. I'd also get rid of advantages 3 and 4 and 5, AND I would add in the stipulation that the class has the slowest spell progression in the game: instead of gaining a new level every other level, they gain a new level of spells every third level, or possibly even every fourth level. Every third level might be best: they'd gain second level spells at third level, third at sixth, up to seventh at 18th level. This would still be extraordinarily powerful, and still might be better than a wizard or sorcerer, but not by as much.
Daniel
Cheiromancer
Adventurer
I don't think having access to all spell lists is that big of an advantage. It just means that spells you would rather cast on cool things end up healing some glory-hound of a fighter.
Similarly, immortality rarely is a factor in a campaign. Does the increased lifespan of an elf make the race noticeably more powerful than if they had human lifespans? Does it make any difference at all?
The one worry I have is that getting rid of feats and such will tend to make mages very generic; what will distinguish different mages?
Similarly, immortality rarely is a factor in a campaign. Does the increased lifespan of an elf make the race noticeably more powerful than if they had human lifespans? Does it make any difference at all?
The one worry I have is that getting rid of feats and such will tend to make mages very generic; what will distinguish different mages?
Tequila Sunrise
Adventurer
Same thing that distinguishes different wizards; spell choice. Thanks for the support, C.Cheiromancer said:
Nifft
Penguin Herder
Tequila Sunrise said:
[thread-heist]
Thanks! The idea is that you're severely limited by your spells/day and your slots/day, so you could go one of three ways:
1/ Strategically Flexible -> Int -> lots of spells prepared, few slots, low DCs (like a Bard)
2/ Tactically Flexible -> Wis -> lots of spell slots, few prepared, low DCs (like a ... Duskblade?)
3/ Powerful spells -> Cha -> few spells prepared, few spell slots, high DCs (like a Sorcerer)
So, I'd expect a Wisdom caster to prepare low-duration buff spells that are generally useful, while an Int caster would have more situational utility spells or longer-lasting buffs. The Charisma caster would take attacks spells, since his DCs would be high.
I also reduce spellcasting so I can afford to give out high-level goodies. High-level goodies are important, since people need cookies to keep them in a class -- these days PrCs look very tasty if you don't see a cookie coming up in a few levels.
[/thread-heist]
Original topic: Er, yeah, I think the Mage should have hit points.
Tequila: would you mind posting a "revised" version of your class? It's hard to follow all the revisions. You could just edit the first post, with a note describing the changes. I've found that to be the easiest for others to read, and therefore what gets the best responses.
Cheers, -- N
Tequila Sunrise
Adventurer
This is the finalized Mage; I submit it to the general public to do with what you will, whether to use in your campaign or to point out to other gamers as an example of yet another overpowered class.
The Mage
HD: d4
BAB: Poor
Good Save: Will
Skills: 2 + Int (Wizard class skills)
Spells: A mage's spells are arcane and are Intelligence based. A mage can cast any spell from any spell list. The mage's Spells per Day progression is exactly the wizard's. If a spell exists on multiple spell lists, the mage uses the lower of spell levels, but only from the spell list of a full (9 spell levels) caster. So Plane Shift would be a 5th level spell, but Suggestion would be a 3rd level spell.
Spell Books: Like wizards, mages use spell books to store and study spells. Unlike wizards, mages can scribe any spell from any spell list into his spell book.
Spell Aptitude: A mage has great aptitude with spells. By spending one hour of meditation, she can change the designated school for one or all of her feats that apply to a single school such as Spell Focus. To use this ability the mage must additionally be able to cast a spell from the newly designated school herself; in the hour of meditation the mage uses a spell slot as if she had actually cast the required spell.
Magic Aura: A mage radiates an aura of magic equal to that of a magic item of the same caster level.
1: Cooperative Spell, Magic Aura, Spell Aptitude
2: Prestidigitation
4: Detect Magic
6: Read Magic
8: Nystul's Magic Aura
10: Alter Self
12: Arcane Sight
14: Identify
16: Telepathy 100 ft. (communication only; no mind reading or subjugation)
18: Polymorph (operates at -10 caster level, but no cap)
20: Immortality
The Mage
HD: d4
BAB: Poor
Good Save: Will
Skills: 2 + Int (Wizard class skills)
Spells: A mage's spells are arcane and are Intelligence based. A mage can cast any spell from any spell list. The mage's Spells per Day progression is exactly the wizard's. If a spell exists on multiple spell lists, the mage uses the lower of spell levels, but only from the spell list of a full (9 spell levels) caster. So Plane Shift would be a 5th level spell, but Suggestion would be a 3rd level spell.
Spell Books: Like wizards, mages use spell books to store and study spells. Unlike wizards, mages can scribe any spell from any spell list into his spell book.
Spell Aptitude: A mage has great aptitude with spells. By spending one hour of meditation, she can change the designated school for one or all of her feats that apply to a single school such as Spell Focus. To use this ability the mage must additionally be able to cast a spell from the newly designated school herself; in the hour of meditation the mage uses a spell slot as if she had actually cast the required spell.
Magic Aura: A mage radiates an aura of magic equal to that of a magic item of the same caster level.
1: Cooperative Spell, Magic Aura, Spell Aptitude
2: Prestidigitation
4: Detect Magic
6: Read Magic
8: Nystul's Magic Aura
10: Alter Self
12: Arcane Sight
14: Identify
16: Telepathy 100 ft. (communication only; no mind reading or subjugation)
18: Polymorph (operates at -10 caster level, but no cap)
20: Immortality
Last edited:
jaker2003
Explorer
I like the revisions regarding the lower spell level for spells on multiple lists. I think the only way to keep this class from being better than the wizard is to limit them to spells known like a sorcerer is. Of course, then everyone would still choose this class over the sorcerer 
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