New Class: The Witch

[JimAde]

I like the idea of only one curse or boon at a time. You could tie that in with the "witches do potions" thing by letting them create a "boon potion." The witch cooks up this concoction, which uses up her boon power. But the boon's duration doesn't start until it's drunk. This is a big deal as it ties up part of the witch's power, but could be a real life saver. I picture the village "wise woman" giving our heroes a potion. "Drink this before you enter the necromancer's lair. It will make you strong. We're counting on you to free our village!"

 

[Li Shenron]

I want to join the discussion

Before I comment your changes, I'll give you some general thoughts of mine about the idea of a Witch class.

- the stereotype can be already represented by the Sorcerer class, if you just remove the stupid "dragonblooded" bit; however it's perfectly fine to make a variant sorcerer and call it "Witch" if you want it to have a different spell list (with healing spells for example)
- I don't think the Sorcerer is weak, but I understand that you do and therefore I'll try to keep in mind that the result should be slightly better than the PHB class
- reducing the number of spells in the spell list does not make the class less powerful, it only reduces the differences between different witches, as long the known spells are the same amount; ditching a type of spell completely (such as teleportation) has indeed an overall effect, altho it's hard to weight it
- keep it simple: 99% of the times you can have a character do what you want with existing stuff, you don't need to introduce new rules (that is obviously part of the fun, but it's easier to deal with stuff already used )

Hit Die: d6
Skill Points: 4
Weapons/Armor: No armor. Wizard weapons.
Saves: Good Will, Poor Fort/Reflex

Two changes that I suppose they are on the line with the idea that a sorcerer would need a little boost. They are definitely ok, no one could argue that avg +1 hp/level or two more skills make a class overpowered...

It's good to keep in mind that with reduced proficiency, we are in debt of 1 feat with the Witch (used to be Simple Weapon Prof).

Spells: Casts Arcane spells. Same as Sorcerer, accept one more spell known per spell level from 2nd on (for instance, a 4th level Witch learns 2 second level spells). Same spell-trade mechanic.

Again, here I suppose this change is to slightly boost the sorcerer-like spellcasting capabilities. One more spell known per spell level is definitely going to be useful, it's about 25% spells more. I repeat that please you shouldn't think this increase would make up for having less spells on the list!

1st level: Familiar. As the sorcerer ability,but the familiar gains additional hit dice like a druid animal companion, using half the witch's level.

Is this actually a benefit?

Normally a familiar has HD equal to the master and half of his HP, so the avg 20th level sorcerer had a familiar with 20HD and (d4+Con)x20/2; assuming a Con +1 (IMXP it's normally higher, especially at level 20!) that means avg 35, but with your d6 it would actually be avg 45.

As animal companion it will have its base HP +6d8 (and would be treated as a creature with HD equal to its base +6). Before applying Con it means avg +24.

I don't see which is the reason beyond this change, is the purpose to make familiars more resistant in combat? The HD increase also brings some attack and save improvements, but not that much if you only use half level, however maybe you mean to make these stack with the ones used by a core familiar.

Mah, could be ok... you can also more simply allow a witch to either have a normal familiar as a wizard OR an animal companion as a druid of the same level.

3rd level: Brew Potion for free

Absolutely yes if you mean to have the FEAT for free, absolutely not if you mean that she can brew potions without spending GP and XP. It may not be overpowered if you keep other restrictions (the time and the amount of potions you can keep around when adventuring ), but that is just unfair for everyone else...

If you want the Witch to be a better brewer than everyone else, consider other possibilities (there's a master alchemist in FR to steal ideas from), among which I think these would work very well:

- grant the feat at 1st level (so that every Witch has it since the start, unlike anyone else around)
- let the witch brew multiple doses of the same potion at once: instead of 1 potion/day limit, use the same limit as wondrous items (1 day per 1000gp worth of the total potion); it's still best to allow this only if the Witch prepares multiple doses of the SAME spell, and it also fits with flavor... easier to imagine her with one big cauldron rather than brewing different stuff at the same time
- let the witch use Brew Potions for spells over 3rd level: this is definitely more powerful, so it could be best to let her pay for it by taking e.g. a feat to extend BP up to level 6, and another to extend up to level 9

Bonus Feats: 5th, 10th, 15th, 20th, drawn from Item Creation, Spell Focus and Spell Penetration feats.

Still boosting up... all those bonuses are fine but they are getting many. It's up to you to see when it becomes too much, the drawback is only that the class may become too attractive to actually choose wizard...

9th level: Witch’s Curse/Boon
13th level: at 13th level, the Witch may lay a Geas as the spell upon a single creature.

I don't think it's a good idea. Definitely fit the flavor, but why don't you just add the Bestow Curse and Remove Curse spells to the list? You also already have the Geas spells, what's the point with this ability?

If your point is to make the curses more versatile, just expand the spell, which by the way it says itself that the DM can approve variant curses.

If your point is to make the curse easier, for example making it a supernatural ability, that really only makes a difference in combat and not always.

If your point is to force that EVERY witch knows to cast a curse or a geas, I don't think it's a lovely idea... those could simply be very popular spells among witches, just as mage armor and magic missile are popular among wizards, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea to force all wizards to know them.

Otherwise, what was your point?

Obviously if you're just looking for the fun of writing down a new mechanic for curses in general, well that's ok...

Spell List

It's very fine as you did. Remember that a trick to make a new spell list very unique is to slightly increase/decrease the level of a few spells, but don't lower it more than 1 and be careful... but I think you have used this in the list (for example you used Druid levels for the Cure spells).

Obviously if I had to do the same list I would have done something slightly different because I probably have a different mental image of witches, which doesn't make my list better or worse .

You probably aren't going to change it but these are core spells that I would have added also:

Unseen Servant
Disguise Self
Silent Image
Ventriloquism
Summon Swarm
Wispering Wind
Hideous Laughter
Blight
Veil
Simulacrum
Trap the Soul

 

[Merlion]

the stereotype can be already represented by the Sorcerer class, if you just remove the stupid "dragonblooded" bit; however it's perfectly fine to make a variant sorcerer and call it "Witch" if you want it to have a different spell list (with healing spells for example)

I understand what your getting at, but for the record I do not consider this in any way a variant sorcerer. It uses the same spellcasting mechanics, because they seemed more apropriate than the preparation method. Their differences, both mechanically and in flavour, go beyond a different spell list.

reducing the number of spells in the spell list does not make the class less powerful, it only reduces the differences between different witches, as long the known spells are the same amount; ditching a type of spell completely (such as teleportation) has indeed an overall effect, altho it's hard to weight it

I dont entirely agree with this. Number of spells on the list, and selection of aviable affects, both affect the power of the class. The Druid for instance has a spell list that is both limited in overall effect, and very small, and those two factors are part of why they can still be reasonbly balanced with all the other abilities they recieve.

keep it simple: 99% of the times you can have a character do what you want with existing stuff, you don't need to introduce new rules (that is obviously part of the fun, but it's easier to deal with stuff already used

I do this if an existing mechanic actually fits what I want. If it doesnt, I change it and if that doesnt work, I write a new mechanic.

Two changes that I suppose they are on the line with the idea that a sorcerer would need a little boost. They are definitely ok, no one could argue that avg +1 hp/level or two more skills make a class overpowered...

The hit die is also partially because I agree with Monte Cook that mechanically, no class should really have less than a d6.

Normally a familiar has HD equal to the master and half of his HP, so the avg 20th level sorcerer had a familiar with 20HD and (d4+Con)x20/2; assuming a Con +1 (IMXP it's normally higher, especially at level 20!) that means avg 35, but with your d6 it would actually be avg 45.

Basically I just wanted to boost the familiar. I dont really see the standard familiar as being a terribly powerful or useful ability since they cant be used in combat, and in 3.5 the bonuses they grant are primarily to skills that a spellcaster isnt going to be using much anyway.

I will probably just go with normal familiar.

Absolutely yes if you mean to have the FEAT for free, absolutely not if you mean that she can brew potions without spending GP and XP. It may not be overpowered if you keep other restrictions (the time and the amount of potions you can keep around when adventuring ), but that is just unfair for everyone else...

Yes, they just get the feat for free. I may decide to toss in a little something like reduced cost, more than one per day, or being able to potionize higher level spells.


I also like JimAde's idea of allowing them to make a "potion" based on their Boon abilities. I will probably institute that.

Still boosting up... all those bonuses are fine but they are getting many. It's up to you to see when it becomes too much, the drawback is only that the class may become too attractive to actually choose wizard...

I dont think theres much worry of that. However, I think I am going to remove the bonus feats in favor of a more detailed curse system.

Again, here I suppose this change is to slightly boost the sorcerer-like spellcasting capabilities. One more spell known per spell level is definitely going to be useful, it's about 25% spells more. I repeat that please you shouldn't think this increase would make up for having less spells on the list!

This is the area where a lot of the problem with the Sorcerer comes from. All the vaunted versatility of spontaneous casting is removed by the tiny number of spells known.

Being able to cast any spell you know on the fly is more or less useless if you only know a single spell of a given level. And only slightly less so if you know two.

I used Monte Cook's Variant Sorcerer as part of my inspiration for this. It has the more spells known, the d6 hit die, and greater skills.

It also has a slightly altered spell list, which I dont think was even neccesary.

But for the Witch in particular, I think it is also a balance for their rather limited spell list. Also there list is largely support-oriented, and in DnD that is considered a mechanical disadvantage (such as in the case of the Cleric).

I don't think it's a good idea. Definitely fit the flavor, but why don't you just add the Bestow Curse and Remove Curse spells to the list? You also already have the Geas spells, what's the point with this ability?

Both spells are on the spell list. The initial point was the duration...to have a permanent curse that only the witch or a much more powerful spellcaster could remove.

Obviously if you're just looking for the fun of writing down a new mechanic for curses in general, well that's ok...

Thats what I'm going to do. Although its really going to be quite basic. Curses/boons will replace the bonus feats. I should have it all together today or tomarrow some time.

It's very fine as you did. Remember that a trick to make a new spell list very unique is to slightly increase/decrease the level of a few spells, but don't lower it more than 1 and be careful... but I think you have used this in the list (for example you used Druid levels for the Cure spells).

Its actually worse than the Druid...they dont get Cure Critical till 6th spell level, they get no mass cures, and they get the basic repair spells as 4th level spells.

Several others have been changed in level as well.


Some of your suggestions are there already (silent Image is on there, but as a 2nd level spell).

Several of them I probably will add...especially Hideous Laughter.

 

[Merlion]

Ok heres the basics of the Curse thing.

I am leaving the initial post unaltered so those new to the discussion can see the original form.

I also made some tiny additions to the spell list. Someone pointed out some theme spells that I missed

Witch’s Curses/Boons: Witch’s learn to create special magical curses that inflict harm on their enemies, and boons to aid their allies.
Curses and boons are supernatural abilities. Curses normally have a range of Close. Boons have a range of Touch.
The exception to this is that if a Witch can gain possession of some small part of a person’s body (hair, fingernails, blood etc) the Witch may place a curse or boon on that person regardless of distance between them.
Each curse and its corresponding Boon may be used only once per day. Curses always allow a Will save to negate them. The saving throw DC for a curse is 10 +the witch’s Charisma bonus, + half the witch’s witch level. However is the save is failed, the curse is permanent. There are only three known ways to remove a witch’s curse. One, the witch herself may remove the curse at will as a standard action, regardless of distance. Two, if a witch is killed, all of that witch’s active curses and boons immediately end. Three, a curse may be removed by a Remove Curse spell cast by a spellcaster at least 4 levels higher than the Witch was at the time the curse was placed.
Additionally, witch’s some times place certain conditions which may undo a curse (such as a kiss from a certain person, or performing a certain task).
Once a witch has placed a certain curse upon an individual, she may not use that particular curse again unless and until the active curse is broken.
Boons last for 1 hour, and during that time the witch may not use that particular boon again. It becomes available once more at the end of that time, or if the witch chooses to end it prematurely (a standard action that may be taken at any distance from the subject). A Witch may not use a boon on herself.
A Witch gains one curse, and its corresponding boon, at 5th level, and additional curses/boons at 10th, 15th and 20th level. Some curses/boons have minimum level requirements.


Witch’s Curses/Boons


Curse of Transformation:

This is identical to a Baleful Polymorph spell, accept as noted above, and as follows. The subject need not make an additional save to retain its own intellect. Also, the subject retains the power of speech that it had in its original form.

Boon of Transformation:
This functions just like a Polymorph spell, accept as noted above, and that only a single form, chosen by the witch, is taken.
Require level: 10


Curse of Impotency:
The subject takes a -6 penalty to a single ability score of the Witch’s choice.

Boon of Potency:
The character receives a +6 enhancement bonus to a single ability score of the Witch’s choice.

Curse of the Feeble Mind
This curse is identical to a feeblemind spell, accept as noted above.

Boon of the Clear Mind:
This boon grants a +4 enhancement bonus to Charisma, Intelligence, and Wisdom
Required Level: 10


Curse of Feeble Magic:
This curse inflicts a -2 penalty to effective caster level.

Boon of Potent Magic:
This boon grants a +2 bonus to caster level.


Curse of Martial Prowess
This curse inflicts a -4 competence penalty on all attack rolls.

Boon of Martial Prowess
This boon grants a +4 competence bonus to all attack rolls

Curse of Madness
This curse functions like an insanity spell, accept as noted above.

Boon of Lucidity:
This boon grants immunity to all mind-affecting affects.
Required Level: 15




Witch Class Spell List

1st level:
Alarm
Cause Fear
Charm Person
Colour Spray
Cure Light Wounds
Detect Animals or Plants
Disguise Self
Endure Elements
Enlarge Person
Entangle
Faerie Fire
Feather Fall
Grease
Hold Portal
Hypnotism
Identify
Inflict Light Wounds
Longstrider
Mage Armor
Magic Weapon
Mount
Nystul’s Magic Aura
Obscuring Mist
Pass Without Trace
Produce Flame
Protection from Chaos/Evil/Good/Law
Ray of Enfeeblment
Reduce Person
Remove Fear
Sanctuary
Sleep
Summon Monster 1
Unseen Servant

2nd level:
Aid
Alter Self
Arcane Lock
Augury
Bear’s Endurance
Blindness/Deafness
Blur
Bull’s Strength
Calm Emotions
Cat’s Grace
Continual Flame
Darkness
Darkvision
Daze Monster
Death Knell
Detect Thoughts
Eagle’s Splendor
Enthrall
Flaming Sphere
Fog Cloud
Fox’s Cunning
Ghoul Touch
Hypnotic Pattern
Invisibility
Knock
Levitate
Locate Object
Magic Missile
Magic Mouth
Make Whole
Mirror Image
Misdirection
Obscure Object
Owl’s Wisdom
Remove Paralysis
Resist Energy
Scare
See Invisibility
Shatter
Silence
Silent Image
Speak with Animals
Spider Climb
Summon Monster 2
Summon Swarm
Tasha’s Hideous Laughter
Whispering Wind

3rd level:
Arcane Sight
Bestow Curse
Clairaudience/Clairvoyance
Contagion
Cure Moderate Wounds
Daylight
Deeper Darkness
Deep Slumber
Delay Poison
Dispel Magic
Displacement
Fly
Gaseous Form
Gentle Repose
Glyph of Warding
Helping Hand
Heroism
Hold Person
Inflict Moderate Wounds
Invisibility Sphere
Keen Edge
Leomund’s Tiny Hut
Minor Image
Magic Circle Against Chaos/Evil/Good/Law
Magic Weapon, Greater
Nondetection
Phantom Steed
Poison
Protection from Energy
Ray of Exhaustion
Remove Curse
Scorching Ray
Sleet Storm
Slow
Speak with Dead
Suggestion
Summon Monster 3
Water Breathing

4th level:
Call Lightning
Charm Monster
Confusion
Crushing Despair
Cure Serious Wounds
Dimensional Anchor
Dimension Door
Divination
Enlarge Person, Mass
Evard’s Black Tentacles
Fear
Fire Trap
Freedom of Movement
Geas, Lesser
Giant Vermin
Ice Storm
Inflict Serious Wounds
Invisibility, Greater
Leomund’s Secure Shelter
Locate Creature
Major Image
Minor Creation
Neutralize Poison
Phantasmal Killer
Polymorph
Rainbow Pattern
Reduce Person, Mass
Remove Blindness/Deafness
Remove Disease
Rusting Grasp
Shout
Solid Fog
Speak with Plants
Stone Shape
Stoneskin
Summon Monster 4
Tongues

5th level:
Animal Growth
Baleful Polymorph
Break Enchantment
Cloudkill
Control Winds
Death Ward
Dominate Person
Dream
Feeblemind
Hallucinatory Terrain
Hold Monster
Insect Plague
Magic Jar
Major Creation
Mind Fog
Mordenkainen’s Faithful Hound
Nightmare
Overland Flight
Permanency
Planar Binding
Rary’s Telepathic Bond
Seeming
Sending
Scrying
Summon Monster 5
Symbol of Pain
Symbol of Sleep
Telekinesis
Transmute Mud to Rock
Transmute Rock to Mud
Wall of Thorns
Waves of Fatigue

6th level:
Acid Fog
Animate Objects
Antilife Shell
Bear’s Endurance, Mass
Bull’s Strength, Mass
Call Lightning Storm
Cure Critical Wounds
Dismissal
Dispel Magic, Greater
Eagle’s Splendor, Mass
Eyebite
Flesh to Stone
Find the Path
Fox’s Cunning, Mass
Geas/Quest
Glyph of Warding, Greater
Guards and Wards
Heroism, Greater
Inflict Critical Wounds
Mislead
Mordenkainen’s Private Sanctum
Owl’s Wisdom, Mass
Planar Binding
Prying Eyes
Repulsion
Stone To Flesh
Suggestion, Mass
Summon Monster 6
Symbol of Fear
Word of Recall

7th level:
Arcane Sight, Greater
Banishment
Chain Lightning
Control Weather
Creeping Doom
Finger of Death
Forcecage
Hold Person, Mass
Insanity
Invisibility, Mass
Legend Lore
Power Word, Blind
Refuge
Scrying, Greater
Summon Monster 7
Symbol of Stunning
Symbol of Weakness
True Seeing
Veil
Waves of Exhaustion

8th level:
Animal Shapes
Antipathy
Binding
Charm Monster, Mass
Demand
Earthquake
Fire Storm
Maze
Mind Blank
Otto’s Irresistible Dance
Planar Binding, Greater
Plane Shift
Polymorph any Object
Power Word, Stun
Scintillating Pattern
Simulacrum
Summon Monster 8
Symbol of Death
Symbol of Insanity
Sympathy
Trap the Soul
Vision

9th level:
Astral Projection
Discern Location
Dominate Monster
Foresight
Freedom
Hold Monster, Mass
Horrid Wilting
Imprisonment
Power Word, Kill
Shapechange
Soul Bind
Storm of Vengeance
Summon Monster 9
Wail of the Banshee
Weird