D&D (2024) New Classes for 5e. Is anything missing?

[Aldarc]

Well that more spells to my super soldier class than a monk class.

A powerful patron empowers you with martial prowess and supernatural powers instead of spellcasting.

The fact that Patrons only create casters when casters are the Squishiest Grunts is baffling.

That's why Warhammer does it Right. Less than 10% of a Chaos Gods, Elven Gods, Ork Gods, and Human Gods chosen champions are casters or have any spells. They hand out Super Strength and Hard Skin first and most often.

A Friar Tuck PC would get Enhanced Grace, Regeneration, and Enhanced Strength.

I'm having a difficult time following your train of thought, and I suspect that you're not following what I am suggesting regarding the power of vows. Though I would nevertheless point out this would align with the concept of "monastic vows."

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I don't really see why the monk being Asian-inspired is a problem. You could perhaps change some terminology to make it more generic, but I really don't feel there is need to try to obfuscate what's the class's inspiration is. D&D doesn't need to be just European inspired fantasy, but if you feel some classes don't fit your setting, don't put them there.

 

[Minigiant]

I'm having a difficult time following your train of thought, and I suspect that you're not following what I am suggesting regarding the power of vows. Though I would nevertheless point out this would align with the concept of "monastic vows."

To me the power of vows come from something external whereas I see monks as the masters of their own internal energies.

Only if the true power of vows comes from a ultrahealthy lifestyle and a near mystical diet, breathing, and exercise regiment, I can't really see the power of vows being monk.

It feels more like the warrior equivalent of celestial warlocks.

 

[Aldarc]

To me the power of vows come from something external whereas I see monks as the masters of their own internal energies.

Only if the true power of vows comes from a ultrahealthy lifestyle and a near mystical diet, breathing, and exercise regiment, I can't really see the power of vows being monk.

It feels more like the warrior equivalent of celestial warlocks.

It feels like you are intentionally precluding the possibility that a monk could be empowered by the vows they swear because you have already determined that their powers must be about ki and internal energies. The reasoning is a bit circular.

The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant by Stephen Donaldson: the monk-like Haruchai are empowered by their vows.

Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed/Evolved: the monk equivalent Oathsworn (inspired by the above) entails swearing gaining powers through their oaths and vows.

Kevin Crawford's Worlds Without Number: the monk equivalent is called "the Vowed."

So it's not as if I am pulling this idea of a monk-like class associated with vows from out of my rear here. I understand that there are also many monk classes that use "ki," but I think that vows (or even psionics) potentially open up more conceptual design space while also moving it away from a certain undercurrent of orientalism.

 

[Minigiant]

It feels like you are intentionally precluding the possibility that a monk could be empowered by the vows they swear because you have already determined that their powers must be about ki and internal energies. The reasoning is a bit circular.

The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant by Stephen Donaldson: the monk-like Haruchai are empowered by their vows.

Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed/Evolved: the monk equivalent Oathsworn (inspired by the above) entails swearing gaining powers through their oaths and vows.

Kevin Crawford's Worlds Without Number: the monk equivalent is called "the Vowed."

So it's not as if I am pulling this idea of a monk-like class associated with vows from out of my rear here. I understand that there are also many monk classes that use "ki," but I think that vows (or even psionics) potentially open up more conceptual design space while also moving it away from a certain undercurrent of orientalism.

I'm not saying it has to be ki.

I'm saying the monk has been powered by an internally flavored system that ran on points for the last 3 editions.

An Oath based class than simply gets power from it's oaths feels like another class. It feels more like my idea for a Paragon class with the Chosen subclass and Celestial Patron.

 

[Aldarc]

I'm not saying it has to be ki.

I'm saying the monk has been powered by an internally flavored system that ran on points for the last 3 editions.

An Oath based class than simply gets power from it's oaths feels like another class. It feels more like my idea for a Paragon class with the Chosen subclass and Celestial Patron.

And I'm saying that I would change that. Capiche?

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Oaths are already a paladin thing. If you want to get rid of the word 'ki', rename it 'energy', 'focus', 'breath, etc.

 

[Aldarc]

Oaths are already a paladin thing. If you want to get rid of the word 'ki', rename it 'energy', 'focus', 'breath, etc.

An armored divine warrior was also already a thing when the paladin was introduced. And arcane magic was already a wizard thing. How many of those classes do we have running around? If you can rename "ki" to energy, focus, or breath and still feel like it's different, then it should be more than possible to have monks use "vows."

 

[Crimson Longinus]

An armored divine warrior was also already a thing when the paladin was introduced. And arcane magic was already a wizard thing. How many of those classes do we have running around? If you can rename "ki" to energy, focus, or breath and still feel like it's different, then it should be more than possible to have monks use "vows."

You could do that. But it would be a bigger change, as it is a change to the underlying metaphysics, rather than just to the nomenclature. And I see no reason for making such a change, as I feel that the current metaphysical model is more evocative, unique and compelling. I get that your idea is to make the class more generic, and want to avoid it instantly conjuring up images of Shaolin monks and fictional mystical Asian martial artists. But to me those clearly recognisable and iconic connections are a feature, not a bug.

 

[Hussar]

I don't really see why the monk being Asian-inspired is a problem. You could perhaps change some terminology to make it more generic, but I really don't feel there is need to try to obfuscate what's the class's inspiration is. D&D doesn't need to be just European inspired fantasy, but if you feel some classes don't fit your setting, don't put them there.

Yeah, not really seeing the issue. I wonder how much of that is just misunderstanding the issues around things like Oriental Adventures.