New Combat Action: Cling (Updated, v 1.1)
- Thread starter cmbarona
- Start date
cmbarona
First Post
Lol, the funny thing is, the first showcase of this action that I've witnessed was this exact example. Not even in my campaign.
I was playing the usually serious Balasar, a Dragonborn Warlord, when we were hired to take out a bull that had stepped on an enchanted shard in a field and mutated into an undead (gorgon + lich template reskinned as an unfortunate bull). My group members made a bet with me to ride the bull for a round. My DM let me use this homebrewed action, and I earned myself a quick and fun 550 gp.
Although this begs the question of how it's best used on creatures of one size category larger (the bull was Large, I of course am Medium). My DM went ahead and handwaved it to be the same, but I'm curious what others think. Should I allow it for creatures of only one size difference? If so, should I change any mechanics? Perhaps not grant combat advantage? Perhaps easier to shake off? Maybe only allow DM discretion as to whether or not this would work?
Garthanos
Arcadian Knight
If I had Riders of the Rohan background and had a +2 on my riding I would be disappointed with the DM if I had a cool use to showcase it and the DM insisted it was climbing, I wouldn't even think that was realistic ;-)
cmbarona
First Post
So... was there a specific suggestion in that post? Remember, riding isn't a skill anymore, but climbing is a subset of Athletics. Should I keep the "attack" at Athletics and leave bonuses to DM discretion? Should I use a different subset of rules for forced riding as opposed to the "clinging" normally seen in Shadow of the Colossus?
Garthanos
Arcadian Knight
yup that would be my call.
Not sure I kind of like what you have though the normal purpose of the forced rding is to wear out the adversary... is that a Strength attack against Con?
cmbarona
First Post
Ok... I updated it again and changed the Climb attack to Athletics, and added in a line specifically allowing forced riding at DM's discretion. As for wearing them out, I don't think anything needs to be changed. You can make unarmed MBAs if you want, and the rules already allow for subdual rather than killing at no cost. How this translates in flavor is up to the group.
Garthanos
Arcadian Knight
Right hit points work, but with breaking an animal it is definitely not a AC effect.. just a fortitude one ;-) although some animals get stubborn and just dont move instead of bucking and throwning .... I think for them it might be some cha versus will effect ;-).
There is no way I am actually worrying about the above (thinking about it a bit might help me adjucate it on the fly some time though)
heheh breaking a minion mount is a single skill roll activity, you can imagine it takes a reasonable minimum amount of time... but breaking a significant mount is a process.. like a fight reducing hit points.... could be rewarded with experience points... might involve the mount bucking in a way that tests dex and wears on your hitpoints or trying to stubborn it out so that it is a mental battle. ;-) I think people under estimate the potential for 4e to be a simulation.
Soopervilin
First Post
There's a rogue power that already does this, the level 10 daily utility Close Quarters (PHB pg 122). Against large+ creatures, you can move into their space (provoking OAs) and stay in that space relative to the creature if it moves. While you're in the creature's space, it grants combat advantage to you, takes a -4 penalty to attack rolls against you, and can attempt to shake you off with a Strength or Dexterity vs. Reflex attack without penalty.
What your suggesting seems to be giving a version of this power to everybody, which seems to me to be a little bit unbalanced. You didn't mention how often this action could be taken, but from the description it seems like it would be once per encounter or even at-will.
What your suggesting seems to be giving a version of this power to everybody, which seems to me to be a little bit unbalanced. You didn't mention how often this action could be taken, but from the description it seems like it would be once per encounter or even at-will.
Sigurd13
First Post
Apples & Oranges
If you're worried about the connection between Cling and Close Quarters, I think the flavor text says it all.
"You take cover beneath a much larger creature, making it harder for the creature to hit you."
They're not even the same. Mechanically they might grant similar combat bonuses, but they're two TOTALLY different actions. And as for the 'fairness' of making it an 'at will'- consider that there are a large number of different combat attack options in the PHB that are "at will" but don't get used that often (aid another, grab, etc) either because it's just easier to make a standard attack, or because the action isn't relevant to the situation. It seems fair and in line with the other actions if you left it as an "at-will."
Further more, I think you could hardly call it an 'at will power'- maybe as much as "grab" or "aid another" is an at will power. These are normal actions that any character with the appropriate skill set and ability should be able to perform, just like charge or bullrush. They're not 'powers' they're alternative actions.
In other words, I think the Cling Action is still a great idea and you should definitely continue to work on it.
My contribution: have you considered allowing characters to roll Acrobatics in lieu of Athletics, depending on the circumstances?
If you're worried about the connection between Cling and Close Quarters, I think the flavor text says it all.
"You take cover beneath a much larger creature, making it harder for the creature to hit you."
They're not even the same. Mechanically they might grant similar combat bonuses, but they're two TOTALLY different actions. And as for the 'fairness' of making it an 'at will'- consider that there are a large number of different combat attack options in the PHB that are "at will" but don't get used that often (aid another, grab, etc) either because it's just easier to make a standard attack, or because the action isn't relevant to the situation. It seems fair and in line with the other actions if you left it as an "at-will."
Further more, I think you could hardly call it an 'at will power'- maybe as much as "grab" or "aid another" is an at will power. These are normal actions that any character with the appropriate skill set and ability should be able to perform, just like charge or bullrush. They're not 'powers' they're alternative actions.
In other words, I think the Cling Action is still a great idea and you should definitely continue to work on it.
My contribution: have you considered allowing characters to roll Acrobatics in lieu of Athletics, depending on the circumstances?
