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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chris_Nightwing" data-source="post: 6185479" data-attributes="member: 882">If this is the final evolution of the system then.. I'm unimpressed. In a word, it's clunky.Take for instance the use of proficiencies. You can be proficient in a saving throw, thus creating such a large gap between the haves and have-nots that spellcasters will once again be laughing all the way to the treasure vault. This sort of difference might be tolerable in skills, since they are of lesser impact, but just to ruin them too we have expertise, creating such a large gap between the haves and have-nots that party-wide challenges will be dull for some yet impossible for others.Then there's some of the class features - Fighters, Paladins and Rangers all get to choose a Fighting Style. Why is that? Why can't the fact that they are trained with weapons be represented with some unified mechanic? It's surprising, but this makes me genuinely miss the old 2E weapon proficiency slot for a fighting style rules.Spellcasting is still hilariously good. Why didn't they extend proficiency to schools or domains of magic? Then we could at least have the spirit of 2E Cleric domains and opposing schools for specialists. You can still create the world's stupidest Mage or dippiest Cleric too and they are pretty damned good, so long as they don't cast direct spells with saving throws, but frankly why do you need to do that with the breadth and power of buffs available?I see one nice thing in Multiclassing, which is the pre-requisite, because it fixes the above problem slightly and you know what, if you want to train as a Mage you should be intelligent, though I would give Fighters some option as to which ability is 15+. The rest though is terrible. Extra attacks can't be derived from base attack bonus any more because that's been united into the proficiency bonus (which works well for multiclassing I'll admit), but can we not have an easier rule, something like the spellcasting rule where you add class levels up and sometimes half levels and you get extra attacks at a fixed point?If this was presented as the next edition in fully published form, I would avoid it like the plague. It's 3E-cum-Pathfinder with no efforts to redeem those systems in a way that doesn't shift to a 4E playstyle. Obligatory SWSE did better comment.</blockquote>

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