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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 8383724" data-attributes="member: 18">Because that's not "a Bard thing".You're right that nobody wants to play those.Because if you're picking Bard, in D&D, that's never what a Bard in D&D has been, and in other fantasy, bard-type characters relatively rarely use "sound-based magic". They used "sound-based magic" a lot less, I'd suggest than people who are just straight-up wizards or warriors. This actually highlights a major design issue with Sorcerers, not Bards, ironically enough. Sorcerers are designed to fill this common-in-fantasy-fiction spontaneous-caster role, but in practice, they are not a great class for that, and the "Bloodline" stuff is vastly more restrictive than enabling (as is their weird spell list, which is inexplicably missing stuff in 5E, though Tashas helps). Sound-magic-person is a Sorcerer, probably, in D&D, not a Bard.So like, you do have a problem with Bards - you try and make it "the trope", but no, that's what a Bard is in 5E - a versatile jack-of-all trades-type character. That's what the Bard was in 2E. It's not really what the Bard was in 3.XE, but that Bard was kind of a trashfire, design-wise (even if 3.5E improved it a bit) - there's a reason it was the butt of more mockery than any other class in that edition, and it wasn't how people played it, it was how its abilities worked. 4E had a strong support Bard, which wasn't identical to any Bard before or since in the same way that stuff like the Avenger just doesn't exist in 5E. Conceptually, though, it was closest to the 2E/5E Bard.Looking in fiction for examples of D&D Bards, though, is basically a doomed activity (the closest you're likely to get is Kvothe), because D&D Bards aren't really trying to ape a specific fictional thing, they're their own thing. Just like D&D Clerics, D&D Sorcerers (who, compared to fictional "spontaneous casters" are extremely weird because they use fixed spells shared with Wizards and the like, which just doesn't happen with spontaneous casters in fiction - or despite my huge knowledge of fantasy fiction - sorry, it's true - I can't think of an example), and so on.Same here. It feels like the problem is more likely to be with the groups [USER=50987]@CleverNickName[/USER] is playing with, rather than the class. I've seen this sort of thing in action, in that some people get kind of mad if your bad doesn't fit that stereotype, and start rolling out memes and trying to convince you to play it the way he describes, that's actually outside pressure to do that, nothing to do with the mechanics, design, or real concept. And frankly just don't play with people like that.There's no concept you could do with a 3.5E Bard that you couldn't with a 5E Bard. It encompasses everything that class could do and is also a better caster and potentially a better fighter.</blockquote>

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