New DM needs help.

[Alyarius]

I have been DMing for about 5 or 6 months. The party started out at 1st level and are now up to 3rd and 4th. (I killed some of the players)

In order to level up, the players have to train. One week for every level. The problem is that the players are out on a quest and aren't likely to be near anyone or thing that could train them for some time. The all have enough experience to level up, but if they turn around and go back, they'll never solve this quest.

They already feel a little discouraged by the lack of accomplishment. They've been out for 8 days, and haven't figured out what's up. They are half a day away from figuring it out, but they don't know that.

I tried to encourage them to stay on the quest by suggesting a modification to the level up rule. I was going to allow players to gain a level immediately (without formal training) in a class they already have studied. I would allow them to do this when they acquire enough xp to advance twice. (If they are 3rd level and have 10,000xp, they get 4th level for free).

The problem with this is that some of the players want their next levels to be in an entirely different class, ie a rogue taking wizard so he can progress on the quickest route to arcane trickster.

Any advice or help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Alyarius

 

[Berserker King]

Let them go half way

Why not let them gain the increases in hp, BAB and saves but make them wait for skills and feats until they have had training? This should allow them the feeling of moving forward, while continuing to make training important.

Personally, I think that improvement in your chosen profession is a gradual process where slight improvements every day add up to big differences as the weeks go by. You try new things every day, you learn how to dodge better, you slowly decipher arcane books you have found, etc. You don't necessarily even notice the improvement, but its there. Teachers get you started, but the school of hard knocks takes you the rest of the way.

Peter

 

[Mithander]

Training is an optional rule, I find that sometimes it adds to the flavor of the games, and sometimes it takes away. If training is something you elect to continue, try having your players train once every three levels. It reflects the learning that they can do on their own, but also reflects the need for guidance by a more experienced person.

 

[Piratecat]

Consider dropping in "potions of memory's flesh," or whatever you'd like to call them. These cause you to relive everything you've done since your last level gain, watching as if from outside yourself and learning new lessons and techniques. After one hour per level (during which the PC is effectively helpless and hallucinating), the PC is considered trained, even to the extent of learning new spells, feats, and skills. The only thing that will not happen during this time is that wizards will not have new spells already inscribed into their spellbooks.

So there you have it: a disposable method to get your PCs trained without setting a rule-breaking precedent. I'd make 'em rare and mysterious, though, unless you want them seeking the potions out every level.

 

[Alyarius]

Mithander,

How do you resolve the question of changing to a class that you have no previous exposure to?

 

[Dagger75]

Mithander,

How do you resolve the question of changing to a class that you have no previous exposure to?

Look at it this way, I am a 5th level Fighter want to go to rogue. We have a 6th level rogue in the party he can train me. I let my party multiclass freely to any other class in the party.

 

[boothbey]

Hold off on the exp...

When I'm running an adventure, exp is given out at the end or at some other convenient stopping point. A time when the party can reflect on what they learned and accomplished during the adventure.

Depending on the storyline at the time, this will generally be accompanied by a period of R and R while resources are replenished. Training is accomplished. Spellcasters make an item, scroll, potion, etc.

Works well enough for me. Also, for skills and feats and such...as a kind of bypass to training....allow the character to take a feat or skill in something he has tried to do during the adventure.

Example, Bobo the Bard has no skill in climbing but seems to always find himself in mountains for adventure. When he levels allow him to take ranks in climbing without a trainer because he has already been forced to learn it on his own. Or if a fighter wants to fight with two weapons, but can't take the feat for a level or two...if he TRIES to do it untrained a few times in the course of an adventure, he should earn the ability to take the feat later.

A little trickier with new classes...but if the party wizard spends the watch up with the rogue teaching him some basics...might help him out. Assuming they don't get eaten by whatever sneaks up behind them during study sessions.

 

[FungiMuncher]

I started my campaign requiring training to level up. After a year of play, I find it a mixed bag. I want my players to handle some of the tougher beasts.

I tried the following as an experiment: The PCs found a lost temple to the god of secrets. Over the alter was a magical glyph. When light was shone upon the glyph, each character present has a vision where he was introduced to an ancient spirit trainer. Now, to train, the character simply calls out the name of the spirit trainer, and assuming enough experience, can level up in a shorter period of time. Each class has its own spirit trainer. To train in a different class, the character needs to know its trainer's name. As a whole, the party knows several, but not all of them.

I think it's a really cool idea! Use or change it as you like.

 

[StalkingBlue]

Sounds like you sure need to find some way to let your players have fun again.

You know your own group best, of course, but here's another thought:

Are you sure the reason they are getting frustrated is the training requirement? From what you've posted, their frustration might be about being unable to solve their quest as much as anything.
If that is the case, then giving them a free level-up just to stop them bitching would not be a good strategy in the long run. It would be better to just let them scramble through the adventure and enjoy solving it after that "half a day" they have got left (shouldn't take them long into the next session to figure out they're on to something, though, if they are already frustrated!)



If you decide to loosen training requirements this time round, try to find something that will be fair on everyone. Level-up potions, as suggested by Piratecat, may serve you well, if you think your players will understand that their characters won't be getting a bunch of those every time they start bitching.

If you allow only certain parts of leveling up, I am much in favour of allowing increased hp and saves only, to buff their defensive capabilities. If you allow the BAB increase as well, you are helping fighter-types to improve more than magic users.


As a final thought, if your impression is that your players just resent the training requirement and find no advantages to it (like being able to develop their characters in roleplaying, forming alliances with NPcs and finding a better place in the world, or whatever you like), then you might consider dropping it altogether.


Just my mixed bag of cp.

 

[Ravellion]

I've been involved in three campaigns in which training was a requirement, and it nearly always seemed to detract from the main story arc. It also is "weird feeling", putting in game requirements on meta game elements. It is very tempting for the players to stop doing whatever it is their doing and hoof it back to town for training:

"Say Gandalf, don't you think we need training?"
"You are right Aragorn. This is a new sensation however, one I did not feel yesterday"
"Me neither, butI am heading back to rivendell, it will make traversing the mines of Moria a lot easier."

I prefer to see levels as an abstract accumulation of experiences, training in downtime etc, rather than a jump in capabilities enabled by training.

So, the question I would like to ask: Why do you use the training rules in the first place?

Just my 2 cents though. I've only Dmed for 4, perhaps 5 years... I feel completely dwarfed to some of the board members here who have played/Dmed since the 70s...

Rav