New Dragon Article: Dragon Hoards

[Wormwood]

And I couldn't help but notice that all the bitching and moaning didn't force Wizards to drop the nose-spike from their dragon.

 

[Maggan]

To the question of, "Isn't this normally a web-enhancement?"... can we expect to hear that asked *every time* Wizards releases an article in Dungeon?

Yep. Maybe we can get sub-forum for that?

/M

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I'll predict that a significant number of Eberron fans will be griping because this articles "cheapens dragons into creatures that sit on hoards for adventurers to loot."

I'm an Eberron fan who won't gripe. I like dragons like Smaug, rather than masterminds. Dragons in Eberron have all kinds of personality types anyway; some will just sit on their treasure.

 

[shilsen]

Its a game. Called Dungeons and Dragons. Players raid dungeons and kill dragons. Adventurers are the main characters, not greedy lizards some game designers have elevated to Gawd-like status over the last two editions.

If the Players are not supposed to kill dragons and take their hordes, neither need to be stated out.

Luckily it's a game which can be played in various ways, not just one. My (Eberron) games don't involve dungeons and very rarely involve dragons, and definitely not as creatures that sit around on hoards waiting to be killed. Neither are they godlike creatures or the main characters.

That being said, I won't gripe. I'll probably never get any use out of the article, but I don't expect WotC to be putting out stuff that I can always use, and how I run my Eberron game isn't ever negatively affected by what articles they put out. If they put out stuff I can use, I do so. If not, then I don't. Simple.

 

[Desdichado]

My dragons are godlike creatures that you'd be a lot better off not trying to kill. ALL HAIL LORD TORUK, THE DRAGONFATHER!

But I use Monsternomicon dragons and I prefer to play E6. When you're in E6 and the CR of your dragons is in the 30s at best... yeah. Might as well be gods. Other than that, I'm with shilsen. Dragons sitting around waiting to be killed and have their treasure looted is one of the most boring things I can imagine with a dragon. If I want that, I'll just go re-read The Hobbit.

 

[Cbas_10]

I'll predict that a significant number of Eberron fans will be griping because this articles "cheapens dragons into creatures that sit on hoards for adventurers to loot."

I'm not sure why Eberron fans would have the market cornered on that one. Generic dragons perched on generic random hoards without some greater purpose is kinda lame in any setting. The thought of every dragon needing a hoard "because all dragons have hoards!" was always a bit boring. Once a DM figures out how and why a dragon has such accumulated wealth, figuring the specifics of its "hoard" becomes an easier and faster process.

 

[olshanski]

Big Hauls of Treasure

I am frankly getting tired of the laundry-lists of random gemstones and coins. With the exception of really unusual treasure that a character might want to hang on to as a memento of the battle, most treasures are just an exercise in tracking and selling.

I'd be fine if a treasure horde had an overall value, and then at most 1-4 "unusual" items. An unusual item could be:
1) Something valueless but remarkable that a character might want to keep as a trophy: A personalized stein for example. "To Lord Maltouch: Congradulations on your 1000th human sacrifice: -Orcus"
2) Something valuable but hard to realize the value of (a library of 4,000 books), a heavy statue.
3) A plot-hook for a future adventure (a treasure map, a diary with clues, a mysterious demi-artifact, a prisoner).
4) A magic item the party might use.

What I don't like are the long lists of things that presumably add variety, authenticity, and personality to a treasure horde: The concept sounds great but in real application I've never been inspired by lists of gems and I don't think my players have either. Instead of 20 cool flavorful items, how about a treasure horde with only 1 cool flavorful item?

Take the following example:

CR 23 (266,158 gp)
Coins: 33,634 gp, 5,532 pp.
Goods: 8 rubellites (80 gp each), 7 pink pearls (100 gp each), 2 violet garnets (400 gp each), 2 star rubies (1,400 gp each), pink diamond (5,000 gp), silver bracelet set with pink tourmaline (250 gp), gold toe-ring (150 gp), bright red wooden spice rack complete with twelve jarred spices (25 gp), green leather floor-length cloak trimmed with gold feathers (75 gp), green glass bottle that lends the flavor of apples to any liquid placed within it (minor transmutation, 80 gp), red velvet bench (the type set in lightning rail cars) (175 gp), lacquered wooden box inlaid with rose marble that contains a stationery set and a gold fountain pen (250 gp), obsidian giant-sized book cover wrapped with a locking bronze band (450 gp), twelve portraits of dragons (six of a gold dragon and six of a black dragon) in different stages of development (150 gp each), and one empty picture frame identical to the other twelve (50 gp), 6-foot-wide slab of white marble curved as if removed from a larger sphere (1,300 gp), solid platinum bow inlaid with tiny citrines and strung with a purple silk thread (2,200 gp), diamond-encrusted platinum monocle (2,500 gp), life-sized female porcelain mannequin with gold silk thread for hair and black star sapphires for eyes (dressed in a blue silk gown embroidered with gold thread and set with rubies in the bodice) (3,400 gp).
Items:+2 ghost touch light steel shield, 2 potions of rage*, 3 potions of water breathing*, ring of minor spell storing*, bracers of armor +7, necklace of the phantom library (EH 152), greater essence of the scout (ECS 269).

Maybe I am in the minority, but I'd be fine with telling the party that they've acquired

180,000 gp of assorted coins and jewelry. A bright red wooden spice rack complete with twelve jarred spices (25 gp). 3 potions of water breathing and a +2 ghost touch light steel shield

The first one appears to have a lot more flavor, but in my games, it devolves into a monologue of recitating treasure and having one of the players record it all in a notebook. Perhaps 5 minutes of absolute boredom for the players, unless one of them hears an item they want to keep personally.

 

[MrFilthyIke]

Dragons in my Eberron game were often god-like in power...but still greedy.

Tribute from their Seren worshipers and all.

 

[Celebrim]

The first one appears to have a lot more flavor, but in my games, it devolves into a monologue of recitating treasure and having one of the players record it all in a notebook. Perhaps 5 minutes of absolute boredom for the players, unless one of them hears an item they want to keep personally.

If the player's don't want to hear your recitation, why do you give it to them?

My opinion is you give the players an appraisal check. Based on that you say something like, "185,000 gp worth of assorted gems, jewelry, and curios. Plus, a number of vials which appear to contain magical potions.", and you become more detailed only when and if the players cast 'detect magic' or ask to examine the pile more closely.

One reason to it the first way rather than the second, is that your summary actually does not contain even good examples of the four unusual items you wanted. For unusual, players are most likely to keep clothers or the stationary set, you'd be far better off with the marble slab or the life sized mannequin as an example of something it would be hard to realize the value of, and the most significant magic item in the hoard IMO is the +7 bracers of armor which is also missing from your list.

You create that variaty because you may need it, not because you want to force it down the players throat unless they want it.

 

[Eosin the Red]

Maybe I am in the minority, but I'd be fine with telling the party that they've acquired

The first one appears to have a lot more flavor, but in my games, it devolves into a monologue of recitating treasure and having one of the players record it all in a notebook. Perhaps 5 minutes of absolute boredom for the players, unless one of them hears an item they want to keep personally.

I'd like something a little more in the middle. Somewhere around CR 10 to 15 seemed to be the right balance in differentiation and blandness for me.