New Dungeoncraft: The Dungeons of Greenbrier Chasm

[hong]

Primal, I think that you nitpick details and cut hairs in halves.

 

[kennew142]

My point is that IMO an isolated 'PoL' village would not risk wasting any workers/defenders/hunters just for a 'Coming of Age' ritual, unless it has some sort of *very* important religious or cultural significance. After all, their very existence at the brink of the Darkness hangs in the balance, and every man and woman is needed for their survival. Therefore, why would they "winnow out the weak", if even they would have a role in the setting? And it's not as if this ritual has any mechanical relevance (=XP) to these "non-heroic" NPCs.

Societies have often winnowed the weak out of the gene pool, even in poor societies where you would imagine that every able body was needed. Without going into whether such rituals accomplish their goals, it is hard to argue that they have existed in history.

I believe that you are reading a much darker version of PoL than the designers have hinted at. I have never gotten the impression that all of humanity is on the verge of extinction and no community can afford to lose a single member.

I agree, and I wouldn't be using it. As for why my players (or I) would not believe in this scenario -- I hope my posts have clarified my views on this matter. All in all, I just don't feel Greenbrier is a very believable setting -- as it is described in the articles feels to me as a bunch of quickly written ideas without any internal consistency or deeper insight behind it. I could post a bunch of other reasons beyond those I've mentioned on this thread.

I wouldn't be using this hook either. Mainly because it seems trite and overused (it was the set-up for the AoW adventure path, for example). I don't find it illogical, just unappealing.

 

[PrinceXaxor]

Hmmm... weird energies twisting and warping living beings. Where have I see that before? Oh yeah, "The Colour Out of Space" by Lovecraft. Most of that article gives me a Lovecraft vibe, and that, of course, is good. But then I'm a sucker for Mythos stuff.

 

[The Ubbergeek]

Because I wish to have some basic-level internal consistency and realism in my setting?

More like byzantine debates on pedantic points.

 

[Primal]

More like byzantine debates on pedantic points.

It may feel irrelevant to you, but not to me or my players. What if one of *your* players would ask you these same questions -- would you address the problem or tell him not to dwell on "pedantic points"?

 

[Primal]

Societies have often winnowed the weak out of the gene pool, even in poor societies where you would imagine that every able body was needed. Without going into whether such rituals accomplish their goals, it is hard to argue that they have existed in history.

Oh, I'm definitely not arguing that, but I don't think you can directly compare the "pseudomedieval" society of D&D (and this 'Points of Light' concept) with any historical Real World era or society.

I believe that you are reading a much darker version of PoL than the designers have hinted at. I have never gotten the impression that all of humanity is on the verge of extinction and no community can afford to lose a single member.

Well, here are some quotes from the Design & Development article on 'Points of Light':

"But one of the new key conceits about the D&D world is simply this: Civilized folk live in small, isolated points of light scattered across a big, dark, dangerous world."

"Most of the world is monster-haunted wilderness. The centers of civilization are few and far between, and the world isn’t carved up between nation-states that jealously enforce their borders. A few difficult and dangerous roads tenuously link neighboring cities together, but if you stray from them you quickly find yourself immersed in goblin-infested forests, haunted barrowfields, desolate hills and marshes, and monster-hunted badlands."

"Roads are often closed by bandits, marauders such as goblins or gnolls, or hungry monsters such as griffons or dragons. The simple mission of driving off whomever or whatever is preying on unfortunate travelers is how many young heroes begin their careers."

"Since towns and villages do not stay in close contact, it’s easy for all sorts of evils to befall a settlement without anyone noticing for a long time. A village might be terrorized by a pack of werewolves or enslaved by an evil wizard, and no one else would know until adventurers stumbled into the situation."

"Many small settlements and strongholds are founded, flourish for a time, and then fall into darkness. The wild lands are filled with forgotten towers, abandoned towns, haunted castles, and ruined temples. Even people living only a few miles away from such places might know them only by rumor and legend."

"The common folk of the world look upon the wild lands with dread[/B]. Few people are widely traveled—even the most ambitious merchant is careful to stick to better-known roads. The lands between towns or homesteads are wide and empty."

"It might be safe enough within a day’s ride of a city or an hour’s walk of a village, but go beyond that and you are taking your life into your hands. People are scared of what might be waiting in the old forest or beyond the barren hills at the far end of the valley, because whatever is out there is most likely hungry and hostile. Striking off into untraveled lands is something only heroes and adventurers do."

I don't know about you, but seems pretty dangerous and grim to me. Of course, you can "adjust" the "Danger Level" in your own 4E setting, yet unless Rich Baker has misinterpreted the concept I guess that this Design & Development article is an indication of how things will be presented in the Core Books and published adventures.

 

[hong]

It may feel irrelevant to you, but not to me or my players. What if one of *your* players would ask you these same questions -- would you address the problem or tell him not to dwell on "pedantic points"?

I'd tell him not to dwell on pedantic points.

Is this a trick question?

 

[Primal]

I'd tell him not to dwell on pedantic points.

Is this a trick question?

No. So you'd not communicate with your players, even if one of them said that he wants to know *why* they're using this 'Coming of Age' ritual in Greenbrier? (i.e. he thinks that this hook is illogical). Would you say: "Just because they do -- don't ask if you want to play!"? Or would you try to come up logical reasons that would satisfy him?

 

[hong]

No. So you'd not communicate with your players, even if one of them said that he wants to know *why* they're using this 'Coming of Age' ritual in Greenbrier? (i.e. he thinks that this hook is illogical). Would you say: "Just because they do -- don't ask if you want to play!"? Or would you try to come up logical reasons that would satisfy him?

If he keeps going, I'd say "shut up and roll the dice!"

Are you sure this isn't a trick question?

 

[Primal]

If he keeps going, I'd say "shut up and roll the dice!"

Are you sure this isn't a trick question?

And what if he has forgotten to bring his dice?