New Dungeoncraft: The Dungeons of Greenbrier Chasm

[Doug McCrae]

if you do things like that, how are you to put the hidden traps in the dungeon.

"eh, and then you come to another empty hallway. Nothing interesting here, nope."

"so we move on..."

"HAHAHA, there is a trap!!!!, roll a reflex save!!"

kinda lame.

When the DM describes things in broad brush strokes the players can of course do the same.

DM: You enter a large ruined complex. How are you proceeding?
Players: Slowly, taking 20 on our search check.
DM: After proceeding through many empty rooms and corridors, you think you've found a pressure pad. What do you want to do?

 

[Doug McCrae]

Not to mention that playing such (published) adventures usually mean that the whole session consists of little more than dice-rolling, as every fight draws more "heat" (attention) to the party.

Totally. What those sessions need is some long boring periods where nothing happens at all. That'll improve things. Makes the moderately boring fights seem exciting by comparison.

 

[Doug McCrae]

However, it may also very easily lead into the game becoming little else than separate Tactical Combat Encounters with some marginal role-playing qualities.

Your solution to that problem - add boring bits - is awful. A much better solution would be to separate the TCEs with interesting bits such as puzzles, obstacles such as a chasm to be crossed or NPC interaction.

 

[Doug McCrae]

what happens if 4E focuses on cinematic and cool action over details or internal consistency.

Good times.

 

[Primal]

When the DM describes things in broad brush strokes the players can of course do the same.

DM: You enter a large ruined complex. How are you proceeding?
Players: Slowly, taking 20 on our search check.
DM: After proceeding through many empty rooms and corridors, you think you've found a pressure pad. What do you want to do?

Um, you don't need to do that in 4E anymore, since Traps are apparently "tweaked down" to be minor annoyances... what's the point in stealth or taking precautions anymore?

 

[Primal]

Good times.

(DM): "Um... yeah... who the hell cares about the history of this village. Shut up and roll for initiative or get out of my game!" :\

 

[Hussar]

Indeed, from my personal perspective it's a bad thing, but for new DMs and DMs who don't like to do pre-play prep it's a good thing. Note that I'm not saying that it's "wrong" to be a "lazy" DM -- it's just that I wouldn't want to be part of a group which has a DM who prefers "dropping stuff out of the books" or even "stealing" (which James does a lot in his articles). Heck, if I tried to drop Silverymoon or Hommlet into a "homebrewed" 'Points of Light' setting, my players (who are long-time FR and Greyhawk veterans) would most likely walk out of the campaign. I hope that 4E DMG also encourages worldbuilding and doing pre-play prep (if even as an "option") so that not all new DMs learn that "everyone steals so why bother with original creativity at all".

Good grief. Really?

I've used Keep on the Borderlands in more homebrew settings than I care to count. Heck, I've used Orlane (from Cult of the Reptile God) more than a few times as well.

Considering D&D throughout its entire history has been about stealing whatever idea happens to be popular at the time, I'm not sure why we should change now. D&D, through every edition has been all about yoinking whatever idea strikes your fancy and stuffing it into a setting. Mulhorandi=ancient Egypt and all that.

I cannot possibly believe that I'm the only one who statted up Claws of the Wolverine and Ruby Lenses of the Cyclops in his 1e games.

As far as world building goes, I hope, truly hope, that the DMG buries it deeply in the ground. If you want to build worlds, you don't need the DMG to help you with that. You never did. What you need the DMG to do is get you up and running as fast as possible. Expecting new DM's to spend dozens, or hundreds, of hours before play coming up with worlds is unrealistic and one of the worst things D&D has done for the past 30 years.

I don't play D&D to create imaginary worlds. I play D&D to have adventures and watch PC's grow and develop. All I need for that is a setting. Take whatever history that you have in your world that does not apply to my PC and keep it to yourself. I simply, completely do not care to waste my time with six page treatises on Elven tea ceremonies.

Three hundred years ago, unspeakable rites were performed on yonder hill? Fantastic. This factoid has nothing to do with any adventures I can reasonably expect to undertake? Don't give a rat's petoot.

Hopefully, hopefully, 4e will finally take the position that playing D&D should be about PLAYING and not writing amateur fanfic.

 

[Doug McCrae]

Um, you don't need to do that in 4E anymore, since Traps are apparently expanded to be interesting encounters in which every PC can participate... what's the point in stealth or taking precautions anymore?

FIFY

And a good point about precautions. A high search and disable device check won't be enough to bypass traps like it was in 3e.

 

[Doug McCrae]

(DM): "Um... yeah... who the hell cares about the history of this village. Shut up and roll for initiative or get out of my game!" :\

You're aware not everyone shares your tastes, right? Why should you care what other people do in their games?

 

[The Ubbergeek]

Um, you don't need to do that in 4E anymore, since Traps are apparently "tweaked down" to be minor annoyances... what's the point in stealth or taking precautions anymore?

The traps are still very dangerous - this is just not the gygaxian 'kill and maim the players' mindset anymore. A war of attrition is perhaps the closer thing.