D&D (2024) (+) New Edition Changes for Inclusivity (discuss possibilities)

[Umbran]

assertion that bigotry doesn't become less bigoted just because one makes it part of one's faith certainly can be debated.

Mod Note:
Let me be clear - in a general sense, two thinking beings can debate this point.

However, doing so requires going into the particulars of faith systems - and that we cannot do on this site. That's real-world religion, and we will not be allowing that.

I hope that is clear. If folks cannot drop this, they will be removed from the conversation. It is time to move on to another point.

 

[Cadence]

I didn't think it was unclear to begin with. These are works we think will serve as inspiration for your own games because they inspired us.

Something could be called inspirational because it had inspired the game (the current Appendix) or because it is suggested as reading to inspire others coming to the game. Racist laden authors and works might have done the former, but be bad for the later. If someone asks for something inspirational to read to get in the spirit of the game, and the PhB hands them racism or misogyny ... that seems sub-optimal. If they asked for historical sources, it feels different to do so.

 

[MGibster]

Something could be called inspirational because it had inspired the game (the current Appendix) or because it is suggested as reading to inspire others coming to the game. Racist laden authors and works might have done the former, but be bad for the later. If someone asks for something inspirational to read to get in the spirit of the game, and the PhB hands them racism or misogyny ... that seems sub-optimal. If they asked for historical sources, it feels different to do so.

Fair enough. But however inspirational is viewed, I don't think this will satisfy those who wish to purge Lovecraft's name from gaming material.

 

[FrogReaver]

Something could be called inspirational because it had inspired the game (the current Appendix) or because it is suggested as reading to inspire others coming to the game. Racist laden authors and works might have done the former, but be bad for the later. If someone asks for something inspirational to read to get in the spirit of the game, and the PhB hands them racism or misogyny ... that seems sub-optimal. If they asked for historical sources, it feels different to do so.

Yea. I think the path to go is to use a different term there. I don’t know that it ever has happened or ever will but it’s something I can see the potential in and is easy to avert.

 

[FrogReaver]

Fair enough. But however inspirational is viewed, I don't think this will satisfy those who wish to purge Lovecraft's name from gaming material.

maybe the goal should be to give them less ammunition.

 

[Cadence]

Fair enough. But however inspirational is viewed, I don't think this will satisfy those who wish to purge Lovecraft's name from gaming material.

I wonder if two lists would do it. One that is works key to the games origin, and one of the designers favorites they would recommend to be players.

For the key books, each could even have a sentence saying what it inspired (halflings, the magic system, barbarians, cosmic horror, thieves, whatever). It could also have a note at the top saying that books from 50+ years ago contain racism and misogyny and bigotry that we wouldn't expect to read in a modern book, and folks searching them out should probably read reviews before picking them up.

Presumably the recommended favorites list would have been screened for that already.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

IMO. Calling others homophobes is not positive.

Not everything can be positive. Life isn't a pretty painting.

People who hate, disparage, discriminate against, or contribute to the marginalisation of, Queer people, are homophobes. Simple as that.

 

[MGibster]

so are most pejorative terms. That doesn’t mean you should use them in a discussion on inclusivity. The term anti-homosexual would be more accurate. Homophobe is a slur that isn’t actually factually true of most that have it applied to them.

Someone who is anti-homosexual is a homophobe. Sure, I suppose technically this person doesn't have a fear of homosexuals. But so far as the definition of homophobe goes, that ship sailed a long time ago and we all understand what it means.

 

[FrogReaver]

Someone who is anti-homosexual is a homophobe. Sure, I suppose technically this person doesn't have a fear of homosexuals. But so far as the definition of homophobe goes, that ship sailed a long time ago and we all understand what it means.

maybe ask those being called that if they dislike being called that?

 

[MGibster]

maybe ask those being called that if they dislike being called that?

I'm not particularly concerned about their feelings in regards to having their bigotry called out. If they don't like being called a homophobe then it's probably best that they reevaluate their anti-homosexual lifestyle.