New FAQ at Wizards - Behind the Screen with magic item creation

[blargney the second]

When it says, "the minimum needed to cast the needed spell," whose minimum are we talking, here?

Is the minimum based on when who provides the prereq can cast it, or the lowest the creator can cast it, or is it based on the lowest level someone, anyone, could cast the spell?

This is where context comes into play. It's the people involved in the creation of the item that determine its minimum caster level. A bard involved with the creation of a X of Cure Light Wounds must cast it at level 2 or higher. I don't see any way to get around that.

Neat question, Patryn!
-blarg

 

[beaver1024]

OMG. I wish they'd just make up their minds about the stupid minimum caster level already!!

 

[Borlon]

Well, if a magic item requires spells from two different lists to make, it will normally require two casters; or one caster with a scroll or wand. Each spell involved in the creation of the item will have its own minimum caster level, depending on how it was made (a scroll of CLW made by a bard will have a minimum CL of 2, for example). The caster level of the item will be the highest of the caster levels of the spells that went into it. Any lower level would not meet the prerequisites of the spells required to make the item.

 

[Infiniti2000]

This is interesting, because it leads to the following problem. When it says, "the minimum needed to cast the needed spell," whose minimum are we talking, here?

I thought it clear it was the creator's level because the sentence starts out with "A creator can create an item ..."

For instance, take a cleric 2 providing the CLW prereq to a wizard 3 who is attempting to make an arcane scroll of CLW for his bardic (1) friend.

Well, this can't be done. The cleric provides a divine CLW, not arcane. The cleric, who clearly must be designated the 'creator' (because the wizard cannot cast CLW), therefore creates a divine scroll and it is unusable by the bard (ignoring UMD of course).

But, even if you allowed it, then the cleric would have to be able to create the scroll using his own restrictions (i.e. it could be as low as CL 1).

 

[Particle_Man]

Re: Creating Magic Items. I wonder what the implications are for 12th level Warlocks?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Well, this can't be done. The cleric provides a divine CLW, not arcane.

Which doesn't matter, because it is the creator who determines whether or not a scroll is arcane or divine. Thus, any scroll of CLW with a Wizard creator is an arcane scroll of CLW.

In other words, you are arguing that the minimum CL of the item is the minimum CL at which the creator could cast the spell - which will run you into problems on any cooperative (wizard and cleric spell prereqs) item, since at least one of the parties involved will be unable to cast at least one of the spells, and thus neither can be the creator.

Moreover, your distinction is not required by the rules:

If two or more characters cooperate to create an item, they must agree among themselves who will be considered the creator for the purpose of determinations where the creator’s level must be known.

Note that it doesn't say, "If two or morre characters cooperate to create an item, they must agree among themselves who, among those capable of providing all the prereqs, will be considered the creator ...

 

[Infiniti2000]

Which doesn't matter, because it is the creator who determines whether or not a scroll is arcane or divine.

We agree on that, of course.

Thus, any scroll of CLW with a Wizard creator is an arcane scroll of CLW.

And I say that a (pure) wizard cannot be designated creator of a scroll of CLW.

In other words, you are arguing that the minimum CL of the item is the minimum CL at which the creator could cast the spell - which will run you into problems on any cooperative (wizard and cleric spell prereqs) item, since at least one of the parties involved will be unable to cast at least one of the spells, and thus neither can be the creator.

Keep in mind we are specifically talking about scrolls in this example, not a wondrous item. So, you absolutely must follow this rule: "The creator must have prepared the spell to be scribed (or must know the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard) and must provide any material component or focus the spell requires." In your example of a cleric and wizard combining to create a scroll of CLW, only the cleric can be designated 'creator' because only the cleric can have 'prepared the spell'. This restriction clearly overrides any generic 'creator' designation rules for wondrous items.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

In your example of a cleric and wizard combining to create a scroll of CLW, only the cleric can be designated 'creator' because only the cleric can have 'prepared the spell'. This restriction clearly overrides any generic 'creator' designation rules for wondrous items.

... except that the restriction isn't in the designation rules for wondrous items.

It's here, under the generic prerequisites description:

A spell prerequisite may be provided by a character who has prepared the spell (or who knows the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard), or through the use of a spell completion or spell trigger magic item or a spell-like ability that produces the desired spell effect. For each day that passes in the creation process, the creator must expend one spell completion item or one charge from a spell trigger item if either of those objects is used to supply a prerequisite.

It is possible for more than one character to cooperate in the creation of an item, with each participant providing one or more of the prerequisites. In some cases, cooperation may even be necessary.

One of the prereqs to make a scroll of CLW is the Scribe Scroll feat. The other is the CLW spell.

 

[Infiniti2000]

... except that the restriction isn't in the designation rules for wondrous items.

It's here, under the generic prerequisites description:

Okay, sorry, I misspoke. The fact is that the rules for the scroll creator designation override it.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Okay, sorry, I misspoke. The fact is that the rules for the scroll creator designation override it.

... except that the same text appears in the descriptions of, lesseenow, magic armor, magic weapons, potions, rods, scrolls, staves, wands, and wondrous items.

It almost appears in rings, too, but it's slightly changed, there.

So, I ain't buyin' it.