New Feat? Combine Spell (metamagic)

[Jesus_marley]

Reading the thread about fire shield gave me an idea. I started thinking about how difficult it would be to combine 2 spells together.

I thought I would try to create a feat where a spellcaster can combine 2 spells together into one singular casting.
The combined spell would take up a spell slot equivalent to the spell levels of the 2 spells combined (ie. Fireshield and Stoneskin cast by a wiz/soc would take up an 8th level spell slot). The casting time of the combined spell would be the greater of the 2 spells. A successful spellcraft check (DC20+spell level+spell level) is required for the combined spell to be cast successfully. A failure indicates that one of the spells fails. The other (determined randomly succeeds normally. If the spellcraft check fails by more than 5, then both spells fail.

 

[Tatsukun]

Well, in essence, it is the same as a normal spell and a quickened one, so that should be what you judge it against.

Quicken is +4 spell levels (IIRC), so I wouldn't make it any lower than that. If you combine a fireball and a quickened lightening bolt it would cost you a 3rd level slot and a 7th level slot.

With the proposed system it would be a single 6th level slot? Have I understood that correctly? If that's right, I would not allow this feat.

In fact, with any spell lower than 4th level, this new feat is MUCH better than quicken. Think about two magic missiles (a first and fifth slot with quicken, or a second level slot with this feat).

Now, since the highest level spells you could combine with this feat would be a fourth and a fifth (for a total of a 9th level slot), it seems that the vast majority of the time this new feat would be WAY better than quicken.

Long story short, it needs work. Plus, quicken can do the same thing, so why do we need a new feat?

But, I like the idea though, it could just be a new name for quicken.

-Tatsu

 

[Liquidsabre]

Shouldn't this be in house rules?

Oh and Tatsukun hit it straight on. Neat idea though, kinda like twin spell but instead of double casting a signle spell you cast two different spells together. Twin spell and Repeat Spell metamagic feats you'd want to look at as well. Perhaps simply a metamagic feat that alters the use of these metamagic feats, so instead you add an increase in slot level cast to either Twin or Repeat Spell in order to cast two different spell. Call it Spell Twining perhaps or Spell Weaving.

Neat idea though, opens up for some uber-nasty combos though. Doubtlessly nothing nastier than an equivalent high-level spell would normally be anyhow (what with the high slot increase this feat would likely have).

 

[Jesus_marley]

Quicken is +4 spell levels (IIRC), so I wouldn't make it any lower than that. If you combine a fireball and a quickened lightening bolt it would cost you a 3rd level slot and a 7th level slot.

With the proposed system it would be a single 6th level slot? Have I understood that correctly? If that's right, I would not allow this feat.

In fact, with any spell lower than 4th level, this new feat is MUCH better than quicken. Think about two magic missiles (a first and fifth slot with quicken, or a second level slot with this feat).

I see what you are saying here. That is why I added the Spellcraft check. A caster with full ranks in spellcraft at level 3 would have 6 ranks. If he were to cast 2 MM using this feat he would have to roll a 16 to get the 22 on a SC check (20+1+1) for them to both go off. Possible yet difficult. If he only rolls an 11-15, he got 1 lvl1 spell but burned a lvl 2 slot and if he flubs the roll, he gets diddly. I like the trade off aspect... more power but a high risk as well.

I appreciate the input on this. Perhaps I can increase the DC slightly (22+SL+SL?). I think this could work.

 

[monboesen]

I have made a similar but more limited feat available in my game. So far no one has taken it but I think it would work out OK.

Linked Spell
You can link spells triggering the casting of multiple spells by casting one.
Prerequisites: Any metamagic feat
Benefit: You can link several spells together, casting all of them as a fullround action. Only spells with a range of personal are eligible. Each additional linked spell increases the spell slot used for all linked spells by one. So if two spells are linked both uses a spell slot one level higher than the spells actual level, if three spells are linked all three uses a spell slot two levels higher than the spells actual level.

 

[Sammael]

A 3rd level caster could potentially have +16 on Spellcraft checks (6 ranks, +5 Int - e.g. sun elf, +3 Skill Focus, +2 Magical Aptitude) without any magic item. Thus, I don't think a skill check is a good enough balancing factor. I like the idea, but something more radical would have to be used for balancing.

 

[Jesus_marley]

A 3rd level caster could potentially have +16 on Spellcraft checks (6 ranks, +5 Int - e.g. sun elf, +3 Skill Focus, +2 Magical Aptitude) without any magic item. Thus, I don't think a skill check is a good enough balancing factor. I like the idea, but something more radical would have to be used for balancing.

Ok... how about this.

When you cast a combined spell there is a chance of outright failure. This chance is calculated in the following way. Base chance 50%. Plus 10% per spell level of the combined spell (2 MM = +20%) minus 5% per caster level.

Thus a level 3 wiz casting a combined MM would have a 50(base)+20(2 spell levels)-15(caster level) = 55% chance of spell failure due to the complex requirements of casting 2 spells at once.

A level 20 wizard casting a combined Stoneskin and fire shield (as a level 8spell) would have a 50+80-100= 30% chance of spell failure. Conversely, the same wizard could cast a combined fireball and hold person (as a level 6 spell) and have a 50+60-100=10% chance of failure.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Shouldn't this be in house rules?

Yep!

Whoosh, off it goes!

 

[monboesen]

What I don't really like about your meachnic is that it introduces a new set of rules for metamagic feats. It would be better, IMO, to stick to the existing rules. Thats is increasing the levels of the spell(s)

 

[Someone]

I though of a similar metamagic feat once:

Linked spell [metamagic]
You can prepare two spells so they fire simultaneously
Benefit: You can prepare two spells so when you cast one of them the other is also cast automatically. The combined spell´s casting time is the highest of the two. Both linked spells use spell slots three leves higher than the spell´s actual level.


I never used the feat, because it´s difficult to adjudicate when spells with different areas, or targets, are used (for example, linking lightning bolt with magic missile. The idea was that the targets had to be roughly the same). Also, it´s better than Twin Spell for sorcerers (more versatile, and uses two lower level slots instead of a single higher level), and that could maybe make the feat too powerful.