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<blockquote data-quote="ashockney" data-source="post: 655262" data-attributes="member: 1363">I like the idea of a short duration +8 to Dex, along with a move bump.&nbsp; I'd suggest the move bump be level dependent as well (ie, 5' bump every 2 levels max 25' bump at 10th).&nbsp; Just a thought.&nbsp; That's a good 3rd level spell. I also really liked the analysis that compared Expeditious Retreat, Mage Armor, and Rapid Strike. I would note however that Exp Ret is 1 shot, and Mage Armor doesn't stack with everything like a haste bonus, therefore you're probably looking at closer to 5th level.&nbsp; Just IMO.Regarding the proposed changes to Haste...I think I support them.&nbsp; Given the following...I can live with the &quot;flavor&quot; changes to a spell titled &quot;HASTE&quot;.&nbsp; It's not like they actually &quot;slowed you down&quot; and called it haste.&nbsp; I also agree with this analysis:Quicken Spell; +4 levels = Haste; 3rd Level Spell?Absolutely not.&nbsp; Duh.This doesn't change the fact, however, that an arcane spellcaster above 12th level will not be able to &quot;keep up&quot; with all his &quot;hasted&quot; melee companions.&nbsp; So I hope they have a fix in there somewhere for that!&nbsp; If not, rule 0 to the rescue!Another interesting side note.&nbsp; It sounds like they missed a really obvious change, that I'm diappointed in.&nbsp; According to the scoop page, there's no changes in metamagic feats.Quicken spell = +4 spell levelsMaximize spell = +3 spell levelsApply to fireball.Maximize doubles the average damage.Quicken doubles the average damage (by casting twice).&nbsp; Quicken = Maximize?&nbsp; Whoops!I think Quicken should be a +3 not +4 (and I'm suggesting this based on the fact that if you look at the example above, a Maximized or Quickened Fireball is closer to a 6th level damage spell than a 7th level damage spell, in terms of average damage.&nbsp; In both instances, the 6th and 7th level damage spells should eventually become progressively better to cast from 11th - 15th level than the &quot;maximized&quot; or &quot;quickened&quot; versions.We came up with this formula, which isn't necessarily a &quot;universal truth&quot; for all spells, but seems like a pretty simple gauge, and I'm a little &quot;worried&quot; about what else was and wasn't changed in the &quot;revision&quot; if this one got missed.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="ashockney, post: 655262, member: 1363"] I like the idea of a short duration +8 to Dex, along with a move bump. I'd suggest the move bump be level dependent as well (ie, 5' bump every 2 levels max 25' bump at 10th). Just a thought. That's a good 3rd level spell. I also really liked the analysis that compared Expeditious Retreat, Mage Armor, and Rapid Strike. I would note however that Exp Ret is 1 shot, and Mage Armor doesn't stack with everything like a haste bonus, therefore you're probably looking at closer to 5th level. Just IMO. Regarding the proposed changes to Haste...I think I support them. Given the following...I can live with the "flavor" changes to a spell titled "HASTE". It's not like they actually "slowed you down" and called it haste. I also agree with this analysis: Quicken Spell; +4 levels = Haste; 3rd Level Spell? Absolutely not. Duh. This doesn't change the fact, however, that an arcane spellcaster above 12th level will not be able to "keep up" with all his "hasted" melee companions. So I hope they have a fix in there somewhere for that! If not, rule 0 to the rescue! Another interesting side note. It sounds like they missed a really obvious change, that I'm diappointed in. According to the scoop page, there's no changes in metamagic feats. Quicken spell = +4 spell levels Maximize spell = +3 spell levels Apply to fireball. Maximize doubles the average damage. Quicken doubles the average damage (by casting twice). Quicken = Maximize? Whoops! I think Quicken should be a +3 not +4 (and I'm suggesting this based on the fact that if you look at the example above, a Maximized or Quickened Fireball is closer to a 6th level damage spell than a 7th level damage spell, in terms of average damage. In both instances, the 6th and 7th level damage spells should eventually become progressively better to cast from 11th - 15th level than the "maximized" or "quickened" versions. We came up with this formula, which isn't necessarily a "universal truth" for all spells, but seems like a pretty simple gauge, and I'm a little "worried" about what else was and wasn't changed in the "revision" if this one got missed. [/QUOTE]

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