Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Gorgoroth" data-source="post: 6079966" data-attributes="member: 6674889">Why cheesy? You and I have very different definitions of cheese. It would be cheesy to make an OP, broken character from this forum and bring it to a game table, but when I was playing AD&D, we didn't comb over forums looking up spell combos, we came up with them entirely on our own. And let me tell ya, my party thanked me for not risking their lives each time we needed to get somewhere far away that we'd never been to quickly, and they were generally reluctant to get magic used on them anyway, let alone poofed into mid-air half way around the world, to get near an enemy castle (but not too near to get hit by arrows or seen), and land safely. I may have gotten XP for creativity the first couple times doing it, but then it just made sense afterwards until we found rings of feather fall or whatever.Casting Teleport to get from Point A to Point B, straight from the spell description, is literally rolling the dice to save vs death each and every time. Using it as is is instant-TPK. Of course people are going to figure out a way around it. Do you think airbags or seat belts are also "cheesy"? They didn't always exist, you know. Many people had to die before they made them mandatory.As far as I'm concerned, finding a way around a limitation of a spell is what wizard playing PCs should be doing. Both in-game and out of game. In-game, the wizards know there is a chance of death each time, or their fireballs might set the granary on fire with them in it, or maybe TPK the entire party due to smoke inhalation like those poor kids in that night club blaze. Try casting a fireball, at level 12, in-doors in 4e and see what the players say when the DM tells them their 5th level daily just murdered their entire party due to 2nd hand smoke from the granary they set on fire, and ask me if there wouldn't be a huge rules lawyering debate. In 2nd edition, a deadlier and much more realistic game, no oxygen = death. I had DMs who would routinely kills us when we did stupid things. But in 4e, you are protected from the mistakes of your own stupidity, so why be smart? Just pew pew and be done with it. If there is no residual damage described in the power block of your daily power, it doesn't happen! page 42 be damned. Why take all these powers at all when if I can add ongoing 10 to all my fire powers by putting greek fire on everything. If we're gonna be realistic...try and put out burning oil on you in one round. Page 42 pulls the legs out of every power on your sheet. Why spend all this money on splat books for powers and feats and on the character builder when I can just make up my own on the spot? Page 42 is nonsense and that's why it's rarely used. It exposes the lie of your 8 page character sheets for what they are : "why have a power that says "go for the eyes"...and why can't I just do that at level 1? Why can't I throw sand in their eyes and with a lucky hit they are blinded, Save Ends? Because that's in a level 9 daily. Knockout is a level 9 daily. Imagine having a the strongest brawler in the world who couldn't knock out the lowliest kobold, no matter how hard he tries, then suddenly he can, because he now picked that power...meanwhile at the other table with his "Yes you can" DM, he's been knocking out creatures since day 1. Those "creative" uses of powers break 4e, because the power system is a deck of cards, an exclusionary system where you can only chose to "Go for the Eyes" OR Knockout, but not both. Or if you are a wizard, you can only ever cast Fireball once a day, never more...even if you don't want to cast any other spell.Only one casting of a particular spell at a certain spell level....eeesh. I could never cast Fly on three people, three times during one day. Half of the cool things I've done as a spellcaster in other editions are literally impossible in 4e.</blockquote>

Verification