New monster builder

[OnlineDM]

No, that's not what's being said here. Some monsters are more or less obsolete. If you prefer the math from later monsters, just use the later monsters. If you want the older monsters with new math, you'll need to either pick a newer version of the monster that already has the new math baked in, or customize the old version yourself once the online builder gets that functionality (probably a few months from now).

I don't believe Wizards of the Coast has ever said anything about "fixing" old monsters that use pre-MM3 math. Those monsters might not be much fun to use as-is, and I encourage most DMs to either not use them or to heavily modify them. But I'm sure some DMs have parties that are better off fighting the older monsters, and they're in the books as-is, so I expect WotC to just print different versions of them, not to "update" the old versions.

Personally, I'm quite happy with that approach, and I don't see anything "broken" about it.

 

[wedgeski]

Personally, I'm quite happy with that approach, and I don't see anything "broken" about it.

Agreed, and I need to rail for a second against this notion that somehow all the MM1 and MM2 monsters are "broken" because of the MM3 math change. There are good monsters and bad monsters. Fun monsters and boring monsters. Easy monsters and deadly monsters. The first two Monster Manuals have their share of both, but this is no different than any edition that has come before or will come in the future. I ran an awful lot of 4E with by-the-book villains drawn from the first two manuals and we seemed to have a pretty good time, thank-you-very-much.

 

[Jhaelen]

No, that's not what's being said here. Some monsters are more or less obsolete. If you prefer the math from later monsters, just use the later monsters. If you want the older monsters with new math, you'll need to either pick a newer version of the monster that already has the new math baked in, or customize the old version yourself once the online builder gets that functionality (probably a few months from now).

One of my major disappointments in an otherwise very interesting adventure module was that 'Tomb of Horrors' uses monsters taken from MM1, MM2, OpenGrave, etc. without fixing their damage progression in combination with newly developed monsters that _do_ use the new damage progression. That makes adjusting the monster damage more tricky than would have been necessary.

 

[Ryujin]

WOTC has stated that they currently have no plans to update monsters from MM1 and MM2 to the new MM3 math.

So dont expect it when you use the Monster Builder.

Nor should they, but the functionality should exist for the user to do it himself.

 

[the Jester]

No, that's not what's being said here. Some monsters are more or less obsolete. If you prefer the math from later monsters, just use the later monsters. If you want the older monsters with new math, you'll need to either pick a newer version of the monster that already has the new math baked in, or customize the old version yourself once the online builder gets that functionality (probably a few months from now).

Maybe I wasn't clear- I'm not asking for updated versions of every old 4e monster, I'm asking for a MB that does the math right when you add or subtract levels.

EDIT: Especially because that's all the MB actually does right now!

If the MB adds +1 per level to the damage, that's okay, even if it doesn't update the base damage expression.

If the MB adds +1 per 2 levels to the damage, that's absolutely NOT okay, because that is no longer how the math works- so why have a tool that does it wrong?

Better still, why argue that it works fine when it clearly, clearly, CLEARLY doesn't? Would those of you arguing the MB is fine as is say the same if it set level 20 monsters' defenses at 20? What if it made their attack bonus off by 50%?

If WotC is producing electronic tools to make the dm's job easier but they don't make it easier, why on earth would you use those tools? If you have to hand-correct everything after the fact, isn't it easier just to do it all by hand in Word?

(Speaking of hand correcting everything- Hello, biggest flaw with the CB- house rules support!)

 

[OnlineDM]

Just to be clear here, I don't actually use the new Monster Builder right now, since everything I've heard (and the little beta testing I did with it) says that it's not worth using because I can't customize anything.

However, I'm a little confused about what it actually does right now. Are you saying that if you take a post-MM3 monster and adjust its level, it does it incorrectly? If so, I agree that THAT is a bug and should be reported as such.

But if you're saying that it adjusts pre-MM3 monsters according to pre-MM3 guidelines and post-MM3 monsters according to post-MM3 guidelines, I'm fine with that and I don't regard it as a bug.

 

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Hmm... I just tried it out and (at least for the one critter I tried it on, the human mage) it seems [MENTION=1210]the Jester[/MENTION] is correct - it doesn't adjust the damage correctly for MM1 creatures as you increase/decrease their levels.

Not a big deal for me, as with a MM1 creature I would be throwing their original damage out entirely, in which case the math it uses when levelling is irrelevant.