New Monster Swordwing!

[AllisterH]

In theory, a reasonably large number of commoners could kill one. Compare to high level 3x critters, which usually had DR, incorporeality, or something else which basically made them invulnerable to 'mundane' weapons, or special attacks (death ray, life drain, whatever) which only high-level characters could face or recover from, etc.

I think the swordwing is an interesting enough monster, and I can see using it -- see above -- but there's nothing "epic" about it. It's the obvious downside of "extending the sweet spot" -- gameplay changes very little between level 1 and level 30. Instead of orcs attacking the village, it's swordwings attacking the nation, but if you did a statistical analysis of damage as "% of hit points lost/attack", I'm guessing you'd find the battle plays out pretty much the same. Do D&D players WANT the same basic play across 30 levels? WOTC thinks so. The market will decide.

Two points. (I haven't seen anything say that a 20 is an auto-hit...)

The defense on the swordwing, AC 42, Fort 40, Ref 38, Will 32 are so high that a SUCCUBUS couln't even lay a hand on a swordwing (+14 vs AC attack) so I'm not sure how many 1st level human guards you want to throw at it...

I don't think Epic wil be "boring" and that's actually because of a 3.5 article...The little bit of preview we saw on Epic Destinies literally blew away the 3.5 EPIC HANDBOOK in terms of giving "EPIC" feel.

If an article using 3.5 rules to incorporate a 4E concept is that cool, then I'm kinda leaning HEAVILY on the side that Epic in 4E is going to rock...

 

[ZetaStriker]

Did anyone else see the Swordwing's description and immediately think of him as comic relief? The second I heard he hoarded things, I immediately though of an otaku/nerd holed up in his parent's basement, surrounded by figurines of female characters from a variety of anime... or as someone else pointed out to me, lady's underwear. I no longer possess the capacity to make his hoarding even the least bit sinister without cracking a smile.

 

[Lizard]

Two points. (I haven't seen anything say that a 20 is an auto-hit...)

It is, and it's always max damage since there's no critical confirm. Sure, it would take a LOT of City Guards to take him down, but the math allows it.

 

[Lizard]

Because I don't want to use orcs. I want to use epic-level grunts that aren't just beefed up dudes from previous tiers.

And this differs from orcs with a palette swap how, exactly?

It's got reach and does extra damage when bloodied. Change some fluff and...

Orc Grandmaster Pikeman (25th level soldier)
Ripping Slash Of The Grandmaster (standard; at-will; weapon)
Reach 2; +30 vs. AC (+32 against a bloodied target); 2d6 + 9 damage (crit 2d6 + 21), and the target is marked until the end of the pikeman’s next turn; see also vicious opportunist.

The thing is, within the 4e paradigm, this is a perfectly sane power. There's nothing magical about it; it works fine as written and requires no SOD (once you accept 4e in general). Rescale the numbers and he is a paragon-level Orc Master Pikeman; lower them more and he is a Heroic tier Orc Elite Pikeman. The only difference is the Weapon tag, and while that might make him a tiny bit vulnerable to disarms, I will doubt that, for epic-on-epic combat, disarming a foe will be no easier than it is at lower levels.

How to make it epic? Give it something which can't/shouldn't exist at lower tiers. It ignores all armor bonus from non-magical armor. It impales you on its sword arm and a million tiny leech mouths open up and it sucks your blood (followup attack against Fortitude, and you are weakened. Save ends.). It can make a broad sweep with its arm and decapitate all non-epic tier creatures within its reach (encounter power, that). Something, anything which says, "There is no way a jumped up orc with a fancy polearm could do this, no way, no how."

You may not need a 3x style laundry list of spells and custom powers which never come into play, but you do need (IMO) something which says "This is a different kind of beastie than we've fought before."

 

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

Better than a Ghhjkslmz or whatever it would have been named back in the days of "let's pull some letters out of a Scrabble bag" naming schemes.

Ha! Surely there's a happy medium though...

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

And this differs from orcs with a palette swap how, exactly?

It's got reach and does extra damage when bloodied. Change some fluff and...

Orc Grandmaster Pikeman (25th level soldier)
Ripping Slash Of The Grandmaster (standard; at-will; weapon)
Reach 2; +30 vs. AC (+32 against a bloodied target); 2d6 + 9 damage (crit 2d6 + 21), and the target is marked until the end of the pikeman’s next turn; see also vicious opportunist.

The thing is, within the 4e paradigm, this is a perfectly sane power. There's nothing magical about it; it works fine as written and requires no SOD (once you accept 4e in general). Rescale the numbers and he is a paragon-level Orc Master Pikeman; lower them more and he is a Heroic tier Orc Elite Pikeman. The only difference is the Weapon tag, and while that might make him a tiny bit vulnerable to disarms, I will doubt that, for epic-on-epic combat, disarming a foe will be no easier than it is at lower levels.

How to make it epic? Give it something which can't/shouldn't exist at lower tiers. It ignores all armor bonus from non-magical armor. It impales you on its sword arm and a million tiny leech mouths open up and it sucks your blood (followup attack against Fortitude, and you are weakened. Save ends.). It can make a broad sweep with its arm and decapitate all non-epic tier creatures within its reach (encounter power, that). Something, anything which says, "There is no way a jumped up orc with a fancy polearm could do this, no way, no how."

You may not need a 3x style laundry list of spells and custom powers which never come into play, but you do need (IMO) something which says "This is a different kind of beastie than we've fought before."

Well, the Elite Orc doesn't fly, nor has he any fly-related special abilities. So I think there is already something that makes our Schwertschwinge a very different beastie from an orc with a polearm. (But I like your leech mouths power )

 

[Just Another User]

In theory, a reasonably large number of commoners could kill one.

That is true for most of the 4e monsters, too. Put enough rock throwing peasants together and even epic level monsters must be careful.

 

[The Little Raven]

And this differs from orcs with a palette swap how, exactly?

Because the epic-level grunts are already written up for me and I don't have to spend any time working up stats for palette-swapped leveled orcs. I appreciate your example, but you see... it all requires effort, and sometimes I just want to open a book, flip to a page and start rolling some dice. You, sir, have underestimated my laziness.

 

[Lackhand]

Also, if you mean specifically an Orc Grandmaster, there's another reason not to use it: The players were fighting orcs at level 1, and warbands at level 8, and defeated the Khan of the Twelve Tribes, the most might orc for miles around, at level 15.

When they're level 25, no fair saying "But actually there were about 58 more orcish grandmasters just waiting to come get you!" -- and, since the bladewings are regular, mookish adversaries, even the argument of vendetta (that is, that the players created the grandmasters) loses steam.

 

[D.Shaffer]

It occurs to me that the swordwing can be 'fixed' by the simple expedient of adding a single class level -- give them one level of Rogue (granting a lot of skills) and take Skill Training as a feat to pick up the skill needed to do rituals (so they can cast Identify).

Or you could just note they have the skills X,Y & Z you want them to have as well as the ability to cast rituals. There's really no reason to add a class level just to give them more class skills anymore. If you really wanted the 'strikery' powers, you could probably make more creature appropriate ones then just Rogue powers too (And I'll be surprised if there isnt a more assassin oriented version as is)