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So does their Swordwing marking do anything? Is it only there to remove the Crownwing's marking? Which would make it odd that Crownwings are better suited to leading creatures that don't mark on every hit.
 

I like how they're pairing a solo controller with three baddies.

No sarcasm there, folks, that's sure to be one tough encounter.
 


dystmesis said:
Why is this thing level 25? It's just a dude with wings and swords for arms that likes collecting stuff. How is that an Epic threat?

Well I'd say first of all, the monster manual entries we're seeing kind of represent the rank-and-file as it were. If you're going up against a group of these guys, you'll probably have an assortment of crownwings and swordwings, and then you'll have some solos and/or elites that have more interesting (and hopefully more "epic") abilities.

Think of this guy like a standard Orc. A 1st-2nd level adventure where you just fought generic orcs would be pretty dull too. We've seen how to quick-level monsters up and down, and presumably the monster manual will contain other ways to "trick them out" with abilities and such as well.

It does highlight my biggest 4e concern though: are higher levels just going to feel like the lower levels but with bigger numbers? Can bad guys truly feel "epic" if they *don't* have save or die/suck effects?
 

Well we haven't seen Epic Solo monsters yet (atleast as far as I remember). As such, we could get into some surprises there.

Also, it is less about individual monsters and more monsters working in groups. So you should be looking at monsters less individually, but how they could work in a group.
 

Shroomy said:
So its confirmed that "marked" is a standard condition? I'm assuming it works like the fighter's version of the mark. Would I be correct?

That's hardly news. It was covered back in February

Save My Game said:
Marked is a new condition that defenders and some soldier monsters can apply to their enemies. By itself, it gives a penalty to your target if it attacks anyone but you, which helps defenders and soldiers fulfill their role on the battle grid. Often, though, there are other effects that serve as riders on the marked condition.

For those behind Firewalls here's more detail:
[SBLOCK]
Save My Game said:
Marked is a new condition that defenders and some soldier monsters can apply to their enemies. By itself, it gives a penalty to your target if it attacks anyone but you, which helps defenders and soldiers fulfill their role on the battle grid. Often, though, there are other effects that serve as riders on the marked condition. For instance the paladin's divine challenge -- that class's signature marking ability -- does some amount of radiant damage once a turn when the target of divine challenge attacks someone other than the paladin who marked him. Of course, the fighter (the other Player's Handbook defender) features a different effect, dissuading her mark from taking the battle elsewhere. Oh, and this is really important to remember -- a creature can be marked by only one opponent at a time and new marks supersede old marks.

So like the combat advantage granted by flanking, marked is relational in nature, but unlike flaking, it can't be apprehended purely by looking at the battle grid. In simple battles with one defender or soldier, you won't have any trouble at all -- just have the defender's player keep track of it -- but when you have two defenders in a group (like I do in my Castle Greyhawk paragon-tier game) or a group of mark-using soldiers in the encounter, keeping track of the condition can be a tad tricky, and you'll probably want to use a rigorous method for tracking the condition throughout the rounds.

The method I've been using lately is marking the bases with magnetic, colored counters called Alea Tools. Each character or monster that can mark in an encounter is given his or her own color, and when a target is marked, that color is placed under the base. Alea Tools also offers a tool to create 1-inch magnetized pads that you can put on the bottom of the base to make sure that when you move the mini, the marker comes with it. Last time I was at my local game store, I also noticed that Gale Force 9 offers a magnetized miniature base kit. You could also use beads, like I do for the bloodied condition.
[/SBLOCK]
 
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DevoutlyApathetic said:
So does their Swordwing marking do anything? Is it only there to remove the Crownwing's marking? Which would make it odd that Crownwings are better suited to leading creatures that don't mark on every hit.

The Crownwing ability is poorly worded because it uses Mark in the title. It isn't actually a Mark. Notice the ability doesn't say 'Marks the target' unlike the swordwing attack.

It's like a Hunter's Quarry or Warlock's Curse, neither of which are marks (which is a specific condition).
 

Look like a solid straightforward monster. But here's the thing I have to wonder about epic monsters.

Okay, this thing is 25th level. That's like near the top end of the power pyramid. And that's just one. According to the flavor, these things sound like hive type creatures. That means there are HUNDREDS!!! maybe THOUSANDS!!! of these things around. How haven't they taken over the entire underdark?
 

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