New Multiclass Feat Rules

[Nether Mage Ash]

I like the idea of multiclass feats and really don't have a problem with it. I do have a problem with the idea that I need to give up both a feat and my normal power to gain another type of power. I think that is a little to much as I expect to just give up a feat to gain soemthing else. I mean isn't that what feats are supposed to do, extend your power and give you new options. In addition, I feel that a character should have the option, no matter how difficult it is to get, to actually utilize certain abilities from additional classes.

To that end I am pretty much ignoring the Power-Swap Feats and instead implementing it as a system of progressively greater Class-Specific Feats.

In addition, I am removing the limitation that only a single Class-Specific Feat can be taken. I am allowing multiple multiclass feats to be taken, but for each additional class the upper limit is reduced. This means that their is a max of five classes (the base class plus four additional classes) that a character can dabble in if he truly wants. See below for information.

Class
---------------------
Tier Level Base First Second Third Fourth
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Initiate Feat N/A Yes Yes Yes Yes
Novice Feat N/A Yes Yes Yes No
Acolyte Feat N/A Yes Yes No No
Adept Feat N/A Yes No No No


Multiclass Clerics Feats

Initiate of the Faith [Multiclass Cleric]
exists as standard.

Novice of the Faith [Multiclass Cleric]
Prerequisite: Wis 15, Initiate of the Faith, 4th level
Benefit: Once per day you may activate a Channel Divinity power. You start off with knowing Divine Fortune and Turn Undead and you may expand upon this by gaining divinity feats.
Further, your Healing Word is now considered an encounter power.

Acolyte of the Faith [Multiclass Cleric]
Prerequistie: Wis 17, Novice of the Faith, 8th level
Benefit: You may activate your Channel Divinity power once per encounter.
Further, you gain one of the Cleric's At-Will powers as an Encounter power.

Adept of the Faith [Multiclass Cleric]
Prerequisite: Wis 19, Acolyte of the Faith, 10th level
Benefit: You may now activate the encounter power you gained with Acolyte of the Faith as an At-Will power.
Further, you may choose to gain an aditional power from the Cleric Class. Only powers that you meet the minimum class level can be taken. If you choose an At-Will power it becomes Encounter, and if you choose an Encounter power it becomes Daily. If you choose a Daily Power it remains Daily.
Special: This feat may be taken more than once. Each time it is taken you may choose an additional power to gain or you may choose the same power a second time (and only a second time). If you choose a new power at-will powers become encounter and encounter powers become daily. If you choose the same power a second time then the uses go down to what it is for the Cleric (an at-will power, which became encounter, goes back to being at-will).

...and on and on for each class that comes out. Though some variances will exist.

++

Thoughts, opinions, ideas are all welcome.

 

[Draz]

I like your idea, but I think you've overshot a bit. These feats are just too good. They make multiclassing far too attractive.

You also need to define how they interact with the Paragon Path multiclassing option. (Which I do think is too weak, even compared to the standard Novice/Acolyte/Adept feats.)

Perhaps don't change the feats much, except for allowing them to be taken to multiclass as more than one class; but instead, boost the PPath MC option so that it turns your "borrowed" powers into real new options? Like, the PPath could be what upgrades your Channel Divinity to an Encounter power instead of a Daily power. And the PPath should definitely give you a new at-will power, instead of swapping out one of your existing at-wills.

 

[Nether Mage Ash]

Draz,

I like multi classing. And I think through these methods you cannot get near anything to what you could have gotten in previous additions, but its still better and more worthy then what they provide in the core rules.

To be honest with you, I dislike the method that they have in the Paragon Multiclassing. To me it would be so much better, and easier, if they just created Paragon Classes that one could take as long as they meet the requirements. Remember, and this is something that I am only getting as I read it more and more, the possibilities for paragon classes, powers and all that are really just the tip of the iceberg of what is truly possible. (on an unrelated but related topic, its like how I just realized that one can have at-will powers in the Utility category, this is an option that can be made great use of in the future. So many such options exist.)

For example, as a brief, a Paragon class that needs both Cleric and Wizard. Heck, call it a Mystic Theuge, and it gives abilities related to both classes. I don't like the idea of giving up a power in one category to gain a power in another. Rather, I feel that by spending a feat you can get a new power.

I mean think about the way I set my thoughts up. To get Adept of the Faith you need to spend three prerequisite feats. You gain an extra thing at the cost of four feats. and to get a second bonus you need to spend a fifth feat, and then a sixth, etc.

And, personally, while it may be highly attractive I don't think that many people will take up on it. Almost all the players that I have seen choose options based on their character's goals and needs, not just because they can. And really, if a multiple players did take it, I don't see it as that big of a problem, I really don't.

As to your third suggestion, I will need to think about it more.

Thanks for commenting, its appreciated. I would very much like to gather the thoughts, opinions and whatnot on what I wrote from other people. That way I can gather data on whether they are good enough, too good, or not good enough.

 

[SpydersWebbing]

I have to respectfully disagree. People are oppurtunists usually. If an option looks better, they're really gonna take it.

 

[Nether Mage Ash]

I have to respectfully disagree. People are oppurtunists usually. If an option looks better, they're really gonna take it.

Well, its like the situation in previous editions with multiclassing. Not all players multiclassed just because they could. And not all players will multiclass in the new system just because they can.

And really, so what if they did. What is really the big deal if you are a 20th level Wizard with one or two or three Cleric powers. How the heck is that that bad.

If it fits, if the DM doesn't have a problem with it, and if it works for the campaign and character they why ban it, why disallow it and why fight against it.

And while your completely within your right to disagree with me, I do ask you if you have any thoughts on what I could change to make it more fitting for you.

I am not against changing the feats, I came up with them as quick examples, its the theme behind the entire alteration that I do not want to change. So, if you (and anybody that thinks the idea is somewhat useful though not exactly perfect) have any ideas that give me what I want and give you want you want, could you tell them to me.

Like I said above, the three feats I came up with quite quickly as a show and tell sort of example of what I was doing. They are not ironed out, or exact, or fool-proof or anything. What they do though is present to others the general idea of what I am trying to go for.

So, really, what I ask is aid on this. I like the feat system they have but I dislike how multiclass currently works. So any help, aid, opinions and thoughts on how to better do it without the current basis of "I use a feat and give up my base class power to gain a power from another class."

 

[FireLance]

One possibility I have thought of is for the multiclass power feats to work similar to the Channel Divinity feats, presenting you with an alternate use for your level x encounter/utility/daily power. For example, say you're a 4th level fighter multiclassed to wizard, with dance of steel as your 3rd-level fighter encounter power. You take the Novice Power feat and select the 3rd-level wizard power fire shroud as your alternate 3rd-level encounter power. Once per encounter, you can use either dance of steel or fire shroud, but not both.

 

[Nether Mage Ash]

One possibility I have thought of is for the multiclass power feats to work similar to the Channel Divinity feats, presenting you with an alternate use for your level x encounter/utility/daily power. For example, say you're a 4th level fighter multiclassed to wizard, with dance of steel as your 3rd-level fighter encounter power. You take the Novice Power feat and select the 3rd-level wizard power fire shroud as your alternate 3rd-level encounter power. Once per encounter, you can use either dance of steel or fire shroud, but not both.

Now this, this I like. Because why you are gaining options you are not loosing anything. And it allows for you to switch your direct choice each encounter. I like this, I like it very much. I would personally allow the feat to be taken multiple times, each time allowing for an addition of a new power.

This is simple, conscience and totally awesome. I like.