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Rechan

Adventurer
(Had to get a friend to convert it from m4a to mp3 so I could hear it. Bleh. :p)

I'm listening to it as I type this.

In: Roc.
Out: Frost Giant.

Monsters shot in the head: Elementals only differentiated between Size and Element, Guardinals.

James Wyatt sounds really uncomfortable when talking.

just last week I was complaining how Orcs vs. Gnolls, Goblins vs. Kobolds, operated the same, and how they should vary them up. Looks like they're doing that - gnolls fight in packs, goblins dodge just around your reach.
 
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Rechan

Adventurer
DaveMage said:
No frost giant? You're kidding, right?

Nope. Wyatt explained that what they're doing is that they want to drive home the point that the MM1 isn't "The Core MM"; if the MM1 doesn't have Frost Giants, that doesn't mean "You don't have frost giants in your game". All MMs are Core.

MY COMMENTS:

So I suspect that various critters are going to be spread out., making each book legitimate, rather than MM1 = Core, MM2-5 = not important to your game, but a nice suggestion. Which probably also means "If you want X in your game, you'll have to Wait for it and then buy MM12 so you can have medusa" (I pulled that out of my butt).
 
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MerricB

Eternal Optimist
I think we're likely to have more "themed" monster manuals, which would fit a particular setting-view.

Mind you, if they use Thor in the PHB, they really, really need Frost Giants in the MM!

Cheers!
 

DandD

First Post
Although, the Frost Giants of Mythology aren't like the big ice barbarian, but more akin to deities with another name (and of course really really big).
 

DaveMage

Slumbering in Tsar
Rechan said:
Nope. Wyatt explained that what they're doing is that they want to drive home the point that the MM1 isn't "The Core MM"; if the MM1 doesn't have Frost Giants, that doesn't mean "You don't have frost giants in your game". All MMs are Core.

So I suspect that various critters are going to be spread out., making each book legitimate, rather than MM1 = Core, MM2-5 = not important to your game, but a nice suggestion. Which probably also means "If you want X in your game, you'll have to Wait for it and then buy MM12 so you can have medusa" (I pulled that out of my butt).

Wow.

I'm...speechless.
 

Rechan

Adventurer
I stopped listening because SUPERNATURAL is on.

Speculation: The Mindflayer won't come out until the Psionic rules are out.
 


Greenfaun

First Post
Just finished it. Sounds pretty cool, I love the idea of synergistic groups of monsters and hordes of low-level monsters being just as easy to use as big-boss type monsters.

The monster roles seem a little muddled, still. For instance, there are, by my count:

Brutes
Soldiers
Artillery
Controllers
Ringleaders? (is that what he called the hobgoblin caster?)
Skirmishers

and also weak monsters for use in hordes, and also solo "boss" monsters with lots of power and options (dragons), and ALSO "Elite" versions of the top 5, that "cost" double XP (right? that's the impression that I got) but are still used in groups...

It's not unreasonable, but it doesn't quite seem elegant yet either.

Still, overall, I'm REALLY glad these are the sort of design priorities that they have. Even if they don't execute it as well as they want to, trying to build monsters from this sort of underlying principle seems like the path to coolness to me.
 


Doug McCrae

Legend
Greenfaun said:
The monster roles seem a little muddled, still. For instance, there are, by my count:

Brutes
Soldiers
Artillery
Controllers
Ringleaders? (is that what he called the hobgoblin caster?)
Skirmishers
Surely there must be a sneak/lurker/ambusher role too. Or is that covered by skirmisher?
 

Rechan

Adventurer
Doug McCrae said:
Surely there must be a sneak/lurker/ambusher role too. Or is that covered by skirmisher?
This are combat roles. The "skirmisher" which is all about mobility, I'm assuming, is the combat equivalent of the striker.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if the skirmisher has sneak abilities, because I would expect rangers to be just as stealthy as rogues.

Though I'm wondering what the diff between Soldier and Brute is. I'll have to listen more closely.
 

DaveMage

Slumbering in Tsar
Vigilance said:
How many giants do you really need in the first MM?

It just surprises me that the product philosophy is that in order to get some (many?) of the monsters that have been "standard" in the various edition initial Monster Manuals that you'll be expected to buy several.

Quite a change from the 3e mantra that all you need are the three core books. (And the expectation that you'll get the "standard" critters in the first volume.)

I certainly understand *why* they are doing it - I just think it's a bold move that many might find...disturbing.
 

Henry

Autoexreginated
Is this podcast only available in itunes? If it's an official WotC one, I can't find it on the website.
 

Greenfaun

First Post
Rechan said:
Though I'm wondering what the diff between Soldier and Brute is. I'll have to listen more closely.
Yeah, that's not super-clear, but I would interpret what they said thusly:

Brutes are big, strong, and dangerous by themselves, because they're hard to kill and hit hard too, whereas soldiers are defensive, strategic fighters, that work well with others and use intelligent tactics. Basically, I think one strong brute might be a de facto meatshield, but mostly an offensive threat, whereas a couple of soldiers might be there specifically to protect the artillery/controller types. But yeah, I'd like more information too, it's not totally clear.

Also, he called the rune-carved eidolon a "lurker and a leader" so maybe lurker is a combat role, or maybe not. It's not one of the ones they specifically mentioned.
 
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Rechan

Adventurer
DaveMage said:
Quite a change from the 3e mantra that all you need are the three core books. (And the expectation that you'll get the "standard" critters in the first volume.)
My suspicion is that they're designing the books so that if you walked into your FLGS for the first time, picked up the PHB2, MM3 and DMG4, you could run the game no different than if you had the PHB1, MM1 and DMG1.
 


JohnSnow

Adventurer
Henry said:
Is this podcast only available in itunes? If it's an official WotC one, I can't find it on the website.

If you subscribe to the podcast, you tend to get access to it before WotC puts up the link. Because you can get it in iTunes as soon as it goes live.
 

DaveMage

Slumbering in Tsar
Rechan said:
My suspicion is that they're designing the books so that if you walked into your FLGS for the first time, picked up the PHB2, MM3 and DMG4, you could run the game no different than if you had the PHB1, MM1 and DMG1.


I can't wrap my brain around that one.


I'm probably too dense to play 4e. :D
 

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