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[Dire Bare]

Hill, Stone, Frost, Fire, Cloud, Storm?

joe b.

The problem with the need to include the most iconic monsters in the first Monster Manual is that everybody's list of "must haves" is going to be different. They can't put them ALL in, even if they leave out all new monsters and monsters created after the year 2000!

So, while I'd like to see Frost Giants in the first MM, the fact they won't be doesn't really bother me at all.

A Monster Manual that included all the D&D monsters that have become "iconic" and important to the game would be massive!!! And, I might add, very cool! How about a 700 page behemoth that could kill your Physics textbook with a glance and cost a mere $150 for full-color many monsters goodness!?! I would so go for that! (I'm serious!)

 

[TwinBahamut]

Hill, Stone, Frost, Fire, Cloud, Storm?

joe b.

I'd say Common Giant, Frost Giant, and Fire Giant, myself. I don't like the name "hill giant", stone giants are redundant, and I never liked Cloud or Storm giants.

 

[Charwoman Gene]

If so, then why not just make them lower and/or higher level? Interesting.

*speculating*

Target Numbers.

Minions have appropriate ACs, but low HP, minions have appropriate attack bonuses, but low damage.

Elites go the other way.

 

[Doug McCrae]

I'd say Common Giant, Frost Giant, and Fire Giant, myself. I don't like the name "hill giant", stone giants are redundant, and I never liked Cloud or Storm giants.

Agreed, those are the best three. Or just have one giant. Make fire and frost variants by applying the fire and cold templates to an advanced common giant.

 

[Doug McCrae]

4e elites seem very similar to World of Warcraft elites. In WoW they have 5 times the hit ppoints and do twice the damage of normal monsters of that level. In fact the whole concept of levelled monsters with brute, caster versions etc having modified stats is very much like WoW's approach.

 

[Baby Samurai]

Or just have one giant. Make fire and frost variants by applying the fire and cold templates to an advanced common giant.

Yeah, this would be the best way to go.

You could customize to your heart's content – large frost giant, huge fire giant, colossal ocean giant etc.

 

[Rechan]

4e elites seem very similar to World of Warcraft elites. In WoW they have 5 times the hit ppoints and do twice the damage of normal monsters of that level. In fact the whole concept of levelled monsters with brute, caster versions etc having modified stats is very much like WoW's approach.

Awgeez, thanks for fanning the "More like an MMO" flames.

Though when I think of "Elite" monsters, I think of Diablo II. The Elites were often unique monsters who had an ability like 'hit it and it pulses energy that hits you' or was just really, really tough.

 

[Knight Otu]

*speculating*

Target Numbers.

Minions have appropriate ACs, but low HP, minions have appropriate attack bonuses, but low damage.

Elites go the other way.

Elites presumably get to perform a few tons of free actions much like the dragon in the playtest fight, along with extra actions and the like. This has the potential to be expandable beyond elites that count as two monsters to high elites that count as three, and so on (dragon fight, again?).
That doesn't work too well in reverse, however, as this would lead to minions that would need to share their actions amongst each other (a move and an attack, among four monsters), especially in light of the "fights are more mobile" paradigm." It might work if each minion only gets one action (move or attack) per turn like zombies currently do, though that is not as easily expandable (i.e. if you wanted to have a "nuisance" or "pest level" where each pest counts as 1/8 of a monster).