New PrC or: Will anyone actually pay attention this time? (Edited)

[demiurge1138]

I am back to the PrC game. Anyone who deigns to comment will have my severe gratitude.

Shadow of Cagliostro

The Shadows of Cagliostro are members of a widespread secret society dedicated to defend the principles of the long-dead kingdom of Cagliostro by hiring themselves out to nations that share Cagliostro’s desire for secrecy and loyalty. They serve as secret police, enforcers and assassins, and spread their martial teachings. The Shadows teach that the keys to victory are found in defense and mobility. Shadows are skilled in catching their foes unprepared, as they can reach many areas most people cannot. They fight with the ritual weapons of the Cagliostran nobility, the shadowclaw.

Most Shadows of Cagliostro are fighters, because of the feat requirements. However, many rogues are attracted to the class because of its focus on mobility, and some rangers of a more sinister bent take the class as well. There are even a few monk Shadows.

Most NPC Shadows of Cagliostro are likely to be fighting against the PCs if they look too closely into the affairs of the Shadow’s kingdom. However, the Shadows are not averse to alliances, and may approach the PCs for aid against some powerful anarchist organization or thieves guild.
Hit Dice: d8

Requirements
To qualify to be a Shadow of Cagliostro, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Alignment: Any non-chaotic, non-good
Skills: Climb 8 ranks, Hide 4 ranks, Jump 8 ranks, Move Silently 4 ranks, Tumble 4 ranks
Feats: Ambidexterity, Dodge, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (shadowclaw), Mobility, Two-Weapon Fighting
Special: Must own a pair of masterwork shadowclaws. The prospective Shadow must swear an oath of allegience to the ideals of the nation of Cagliostro.

BAB: As fighter
Good Saves: Fort, Reflex

Class Skills
The Shadow of Cagliostro’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are: Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Escape Artist (Dex), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Search (Int), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex). See Chapter 4: Skills in the Players Handbook for more details.
Skill Points at each level: 4 + Int modifier.

Class Features
The following are features of the Shadow of Cagliostro.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Shadows of Cagliostro gain no additional weapon or armor proficiencies. A Shadow who wears heavy armor cannot use the following class abilities: fast movement, acrobatics, armored agility, intuitive relfexes and ultimate intuition.

Agile Defense: At first level, a Shadow of Cagliostro learns how to use his shadowclaws to parry attacks with skill. When wielding two shadowclaws and using the fighting defensively or total defense actions, a Shadow gains an additional +1 dodge bonus to his armor class. This bonus increases to +2 at 4th level, +3 at 7th level, and +4 at 10th level.

Weapon Focus: A 1st-level Shadow of Cagliostro gains Weapon Focus (shadowclaw) as a bonus feat.

Fast Movement: At 2nd level, and every other level thereafter, the Shadow of Cagliostro’s movement increases by +5 feet when wearing no armor, light armor or medium armor.

Weapon Specialization: A 3rd-level Shadow of Cagliostro gains Weapon Specialization (shadowclaw) as a bonus feat, even if his previous class was not fighter.

Acrobatics: A 4rd-level Shadow of Cagliostro gains a +10 competence bonus on all Balance, Climb, Jump and Tumble checks. At 9th level, this bonus increases to +20. In addition, a Shadow can always choose to take 10 on a Balance, Climb, Jump and Tumble check, even when circumstances would normally prevent him from doing so.

Armored Agility: At 5th level, a Shadow of Cagliostro learns how to move effectively even when restricted by armor. A Shadow’s speed is no longer affected by his armor. In addition, the Shadow's armor check penalty is reduced by -2 on all skill checks. This ability does not apply to heavy armors.

Intuitive Reflexes: At 5th level, the Shadow of Cagliostro learns how to quickly gain the advantage in any combat. The Shadow of Cagliostro can use the refocus action as a move-equivalent action.

Leap of the Clouds: A 6th-level Shadow of Cagliostro’s jumping distance is no longer limited according to height.

Superior Weapon Focus: At 8th level, a Shadow of Cagliostro gains a +1 bonus to all attack rolls made with shadowclaws. This bonus stacks with the bonus granted by Weapon Focus.

Improved Critical: A 9th-level Shadow of Cagliostro gains Improved Critical (shadowclaw) as a bonus feat.

Ultimate Intuition: At 10th level, the Shadow of Cagliostro can avoid his opponent's blows with supernatural ease, gaining an insight bonus to Armor Class equivalent to 1+ his Intelligence modifier.

Shadowclaw: The shadowclaw is a weapon favored by ninja, thieves, and others who rely on manual dexterity when armed. The shadowclaw is a metal gauntlet with foot long blades extending from each finger. Shadowclaws cannot be disarmed. Small exotic weapon, 20gp each. 1d6 slashing/piercing damage. 18-20, x2 criticals. Weight 2 lb. The cost is for one shadowclaw.

Demiurge out

Edit: Made the class a bit more balanced (tweaks here, there, just about everywhere)

 

[las]

on the shadow claw it could have a crit of 18-20/x2 and it would do ok as it wont realy over power much.

 

[demiurge1138]

Someone actually responds!
Anyway, by the vague guidelines WOTC sets, an 18-20 crit range would be a bit high. The main 18-20 is the scimitar, which does less damage for its size (1d6) than most weapons. Ditto for the falchion. If I gave a small weapon 18-20 crits, it should probably deal only 1d4 of damage.

Demiurge out.

 

[Derrick Reeves]

Fast movement seems to ramp up a little too fast. Maybe a burst of speed type power would be better, particularly if these guys aren't meant to be covering vast amounts of ground in non-tactical movement.

Armoured Agility should probably be a fixed -X, rather than the halving effect.

I'm surprised that they don't require Improved Initiative or Run.

It gets a B-. Has potential, but needs more work.

 

[Seravin]

Overall I like it.

Just four quibbles.
1) The special requirement seems a little weak. I know roll playing requirements shouldn't necessarily be used, but I would suggest in addition to owning a pair of Shadow Claw bracers that a requirement be for the person to either swear an oath to join and/or complete some sort of quest to prove their loyalty.

2) The acrobactic bonuses seem a little steep. Sort of all at once. But I recall that some OA classes did the same thing. Still I'd consider placing the +20 bonus at 10th. Personal preference really.

3) Currently there doesn't seem to be a lot that would incent me to go to 10th level. A +4 dodge bonus while defending isn't that big a deal to me.

4) It takes forever to get improved critical. In theory a straight fighter with an 18 int could qualify at 6th level (presuming he knew early enough that he was going to do this). By second level in this class he'd qualify for improve critical already with the next available feat - but he has to wait for 7 more levels. Then again - the game is sometimes about hard choices.

Overall not bad. Certainly not overpowered. Overall I'd consider it if I was playing the right character.

 

[Al]

Someone actually responds!
Anyway, by the vague guidelines WOTC sets, an 18-20 crit range would be a bit high. The main 18-20 is the scimitar, which does less damage for its size (1d6) than most weapons. Ditto for the falchion. If I gave a small weapon 18-20 crits, it should probably deal only 1d4 of damage.

Demiurge out.

Then again, the scimitar is a martial weapon. Since the shadowclaw is exotic, it is normal to bump up the damage dice by one (e.g.s bastard sword, dwarven waraxe). d6, 18-20/x2 is perfectly acceptable for a small exotic weapon (considering a shortsword is d6, 19-20/x2)

 

[hong]

Someone actually responds!
Anyway, by the vague guidelines WOTC sets, an 18-20 crit range would be a bit high. The main 18-20 is the scimitar, which does less damage for its size (1d6) than most weapons. Ditto for the falchion. If I gave a small weapon 18-20 crits, it should probably deal only 1d4 of damage.

Nah, the fact that you need an Exotic WP to use it should be a sufficient balancing factor. In fact, you've pretty much recreated the bladed gauntlet from S&F, but with the correct threat range.

As for the class, it seems okay, maybe even on the weak side. Leap of the Clouds, for example, is a monk 7th level ability, but this class only gets it at 11th. Similarly, 55 ft movement at 14th for a shadow of Cagliostro can be compared to 60 ft at 9th for the monk. In general, fast movement schticks aren't that great at high levels, because typically everyone will be flying or have boots of S&S. Thus you have room to give the class something else, assuming your campaign has roughly the default levels of magic.

For starters, I'd give the class a good Fort save in addition to a good Ref save. Maybe dump the armoured agility feature for a Wis or Int bonus to AC, since it seems to me that this class is all about mobility. A shadow of Cagliostro bouncing around in mithral full plate seems a bit jarring, but that's just me.

 

[demiurge1138]

I'm glad I actually got suggestions on this one.
Taking all of your suggestions to account, I have edited the shadow of Cagliostro PrC, including changing the armored agility ability, adding a new AC modifying ability and changing the saves.
Also, last I checked, Seravin, all you needed for Improved Crit was a +8 BAB and a profiecency.

Now what does the collective think?

Demiurge out.

 

[JChung2003]

I forgot to post my disclaimer on hong's Mystic Swordsman PrC so I'll post it here: I tend to favor nerfing prestige classes since many seem to be designed by players and DM's who cherrypick their favorite prestige class abilities from the various splatbooks without taking class balance into much consideration. Feel free to ignore my suggestions if you dislike nerf-toned criticism.

A prestige class with a rogue-like class skill set, saves, and skill points, yet it keeps the Fighter BAB? Change this to a Bard/Cleric/Druid/Monk/Rogue BAB.

Characters with 4 ranks of Tumble (a prerequisite) are already only one rank away from getting the dodge bonuses when fighting defensively or taking total defense actions anyway. Nix the Agile Defense bonus at 1st level.

Fast Movement gets too good (+45' at level 10), especially for small races and dwarves. Scale this appropriately and nix being able to do this while wearing medium armor.

What is it with prestige classes and Acrobatics? 4+ ranks of Tumble plus the hefty competence bonuses and automatic Take 10's essentially eliminates the possibility of failure with Tumble checks to avoid AoO's when moving through enemies or the squares they threaten. Folks, characters with the prerequisites are one feat away from Spring Attack. Why bother?

Re: Armored Agility, by the time someone gets to this level, they already own the masterwork or magic armor of their choice (-1 to Armor Check penalty). Make this shave a point of their Armor Check penalty, not half the points.

Leap of the Clouds? In medium armor?

IIRC, they call Superior Weapon Focus Greater Weapon Focus in the revised third edition (Dragon #308, pg. 91). If you like, rename it to be consistent with 3.5.

I agree with the other poster about the prerequisites. They should have something like the sponsorship of someone who is already a member of the Shadows, keeping in line with its standing as a secret society.

This prestige class would make a better 5-level PrC than a 10-level one.

 

[hong]

I forgot to post my disclaimer on hong's Mystic Swordsman PrC so I'll post it here: I tend to favor nerfing prestige classes since many seem to be designed by players and DM's who cherrypick their favorite prestige class abilities from the various splatbooks without taking class balance into much consideration. Feel free to ignore my suggestions if you dislike nerf-toned criticism.

Right.

A prestige class with a rogue-like class skill set, saves, and skill points,

The rogue does not get 4 skill points/level. And a skill set that excludes Disable Device, Bluff, Sense Motive, Pickpocket and Use Magic Device does not seem particularly roguelike to me.

Fast Movement gets too good (+45' at level 10), especially for small races and dwarves. Scale this appropriately and nix being able to do this while wearing medium armor.

Twaddle.

What is it with prestige classes and Acrobatics? 4+ ranks of Tumble plus the hefty competence bonuses and automatic Take 10's essentially eliminates the possibility of failure with Tumble checks to avoid AoO's when moving through enemies or the squares they threaten. Folks, characters with the prerequisites are one feat away from Spring Attack. Why bother?

Check out the rules in OA for extreme tumbling, or in the ELH if you want truly ridiculous DCs.