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General Tabletop Discussion
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition (A5E)
New Savant Archetypes - the Detective & the Paranormalist, inspired by the works of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle and H.P. Lovecraft
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<blockquote data-quote="xiphumor" data-source="post: 9102559" data-attributes="member: 7033055"><p>Okay, Here are my thoughts</p><p></p><p><strong><u>Savant Archetype: The Detective</u></strong></p><p></p><p>I personally don't see why this couldn't have been described using the Perception and Investigation skills instead, but on its own it's not bad.</p><p></p><p>Again, I think it would be simpler to describe this in terms of using Investigation and Survival. I don't think the idea itself is bad, but it feels overwritten. It also seems like it has a lot of overlap with Discerning Mind.</p><p></p><p>Soooo... Insight checks? I personally don't feel as though Persuasion and Deception are the right options here, at least not together. That feels like something which would belong more to a face to me.</p><p></p><p>Investigation vs. AC is really bizarre to me. Why should how hard you are to hit impact how easy you are to analyze? It also gives players an incentive to dump all of their expertise dice from Skill Focus into Investigation, which I think is somewhat suboptimal. On top of that, the near constant access to advantage makes this a little too tempting of a dip for rogues, IMHO.</p><p></p><p>This is a matter of opinion, but I personally think savants should be non-magical unless the flavor of the archetype demands otherwise. This is a useful ability, but it should be a non-magical effect.</p><p></p><p>The "in relation to yours" clause is a bit confusing to me, but more importantly, I don't find much of this information very useful. A lot of it will be made fairly obvious within the first few rounds of combat. Compare that with the Vanguard's 11th-level ability, which grants information like vulnerabilities and the weakest saving throw.</p><p></p><p>This is too much. Savants get an expertise die on all Intelligence checks and saving throws at 15th level, so getting it at 11th level in addition to the same bonus to Wisdom, which is generally a more important stat, feels excessive. Plus, is doesn't strike me as particularly flavorful.</p><p></p><p>Similar to AC, Constitution feels like a strange thing to use as DC, and even stranger since it wasn't used for the previous, similar ability. It also feels a little weak to have to wait for a later turn to use the ability. The target might be out of the fight by then.</p><p></p><p>So this would be a pretty good capstone, but the interplay of the cost with the benefit ends up cancelling a lot out. I do agree that a 9th level spell once per long rest needs <em>something</em> to weigh against it, but the level of strife causes disadvantage on Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma checks, which cancels the advantage granted to those checks by this spell. Also, once again, I personally would prefer a non-magical detective, even if the mechanics are otherwise identical.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Reasonable.</p><p></p><p>I find this too niche. It's entirely dependent on the Narrator whether this ever sees any action. I would expand the number of creature types you can focus on and allow you to change it on a long rest, if not a short rest.</p><p></p><p>Again, fairly reasonable.</p><p></p><p>So I agree that access to Detect Evil and Good, at the very least, is super important for this archetype, and Detect Magic is a solid addition. However, I don't foresee myself needing to use these spells as many times as you're permitting at higher levels. Each additional casting is less useful as a feature than the last, especially if they're recharging on a short rest.</p><p></p><p>Fun and flavorful, but there are some issues. For one, if creatures are making the save against your (I assume trick) save DC, then it gets harder for people to pass as you grow in levels. Also, there doesn't seem to be a limit to how many creatures you can affect at a time. The level of strife also seems like it's probably an unnecessary cost.</p><p></p><p>Probably a bit strong for this level. Rule of thumb for savants power progression: 6th level is the equivalent of a 1st-level spell per short rest, 11th-level is a 2nd-level spell per short rest, and 17th-level is a 3rd-level spell per short rest. </p><p></p><p>This is a both a significant jump in power and also extremely broad in its application. </p><p></p><p>That list feels a little bit long. But again, I would probably rather see it strengthened earlier and weakened here.</p><p></p><p>This feels weak for a 14th level feature. Also, I'm not sure why the limit on the number of arcane innovations is necessary. If I'm doing my math right, it shouldn't be possible to have more than 5 anyway.</p><p></p><p>This feels underwhelming for a 17th level feature, although it could be good earlier on.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="xiphumor, post: 9102559, member: 7033055"] Okay, Here are my thoughts [B][U]Savant Archetype: The Detective[/U][/B] I personally don't see why this couldn't have been described using the Perception and Investigation skills instead, but on its own it's not bad. Again, I think it would be simpler to describe this in terms of using Investigation and Survival. I don't think the idea itself is bad, but it feels overwritten. It also seems like it has a lot of overlap with Discerning Mind. Soooo... Insight checks? I personally don't feel as though Persuasion and Deception are the right options here, at least not together. That feels like something which would belong more to a face to me. Investigation vs. AC is really bizarre to me. Why should how hard you are to hit impact how easy you are to analyze? It also gives players an incentive to dump all of their expertise dice from Skill Focus into Investigation, which I think is somewhat suboptimal. On top of that, the near constant access to advantage makes this a little too tempting of a dip for rogues, IMHO. This is a matter of opinion, but I personally think savants should be non-magical unless the flavor of the archetype demands otherwise. This is a useful ability, but it should be a non-magical effect. The "in relation to yours" clause is a bit confusing to me, but more importantly, I don't find much of this information very useful. A lot of it will be made fairly obvious within the first few rounds of combat. Compare that with the Vanguard's 11th-level ability, which grants information like vulnerabilities and the weakest saving throw. This is too much. Savants get an expertise die on all Intelligence checks and saving throws at 15th level, so getting it at 11th level in addition to the same bonus to Wisdom, which is generally a more important stat, feels excessive. Plus, is doesn't strike me as particularly flavorful. Similar to AC, Constitution feels like a strange thing to use as DC, and even stranger since it wasn't used for the previous, similar ability. It also feels a little weak to have to wait for a later turn to use the ability. The target might be out of the fight by then. So this would be a pretty good capstone, but the interplay of the cost with the benefit ends up cancelling a lot out. I do agree that a 9th level spell once per long rest needs [I]something[/I] to weigh against it, but the level of strife causes disadvantage on Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma checks, which cancels the advantage granted to those checks by this spell. Also, once again, I personally would prefer a non-magical detective, even if the mechanics are otherwise identical. Reasonable. I find this too niche. It's entirely dependent on the Narrator whether this ever sees any action. I would expand the number of creature types you can focus on and allow you to change it on a long rest, if not a short rest. Again, fairly reasonable. So I agree that access to Detect Evil and Good, at the very least, is super important for this archetype, and Detect Magic is a solid addition. However, I don't foresee myself needing to use these spells as many times as you're permitting at higher levels. Each additional casting is less useful as a feature than the last, especially if they're recharging on a short rest. Fun and flavorful, but there are some issues. For one, if creatures are making the save against your (I assume trick) save DC, then it gets harder for people to pass as you grow in levels. Also, there doesn't seem to be a limit to how many creatures you can affect at a time. The level of strife also seems like it's probably an unnecessary cost. Probably a bit strong for this level. Rule of thumb for savants power progression: 6th level is the equivalent of a 1st-level spell per short rest, 11th-level is a 2nd-level spell per short rest, and 17th-level is a 3rd-level spell per short rest. This is a both a significant jump in power and also extremely broad in its application. That list feels a little bit long. But again, I would probably rather see it strengthened earlier and weakened here. This feels weak for a 14th level feature. Also, I'm not sure why the limit on the number of arcane innovations is necessary. If I'm doing my math right, it shouldn't be possible to have more than 5 anyway. This feels underwhelming for a 17th level feature, although it could be good earlier on. [/QUOTE]
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New Savant Archetypes - the Detective & the Paranormalist, inspired by the works of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle and H.P. Lovecraft
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