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<blockquote data-quote="DND_Reborn" data-source="post: 8661772" data-attributes="member: 6987520">Honestly, it is probably both LOL! FWIW, Champion IS my favorite fighter subclass because I do think it is good. I love Remarkable Athlete, both for the benefits and the concept. I know a lot of people like BM, but to me I find superiority dice annoying. EKs are ok, but take too long to really get going with their slow spell progression. The ones in XGtE have good points but also a lot of bad points IMO.You really can't, of course, all you can do is state your own experiences--and in my cases the vast majority of wizards typically have spells like magic missile eventually.When people compare it to the 4d8 of a standard 17th-level cantrip, they think the cantrip is vastly superior. It isn't. The average of 4d8 is 18 points, with a 65% chance to hit gives you about 12 damage expected. Magic missile is a guaranteed 10.5, just a bit less, and fewer creatures have resistance to force damage than the other damage types cantrips do. So, I am not saying magic missile is a better option, simply that it can be.While I can understand the views of those who like the new stat block/spellcasting, to me this Vecna simply does not represent an archlich (wizard) who should have way more options in terms of powers and features (accomplished in the past through spells and a spell list). Given his power level, it is expected for him to have features unheard of by mortals, which WotC has attempted at least.Now, I agree with other that WotC's spell lists in creatures is often lack luster and not great (IMO) considering what spells are available. Of course they make some good choices, but I see a lot of them as suboptimal so I have to change them anyway.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="DND_Reborn, post: 8661772, member: 6987520"] Honestly, it is probably both LOL! FWIW, Champion [I]IS[/I] my favorite fighter subclass because I do think it is good. I love Remarkable Athlete, both for the benefits and the concept. I know a lot of people like BM, but to me I find superiority dice annoying. EKs are ok, but take too long to really get going with their slow spell progression. The ones in XGtE have good points but also a lot of bad points IMO. You really can't, of course, all you can do is state your own experiences--and in my cases the vast majority of wizards typically have spells like magic missile eventually. When people compare it to the 4d8 of a standard 17th-level cantrip, they think the cantrip is vastly superior. It isn't. The average of 4d8 is 18 points, with a 65% chance to hit gives you about 12 damage expected. Magic missile is a guaranteed 10.5, just a bit less, and fewer creatures have resistance to force damage than the other damage types cantrips do. So, I am not saying magic missile is a better option, simply that it [I]can[/I] be. While I can understand the views of those who like the new stat block/spellcasting, to me this Vecna simply does not represent an archlich (wizard) who should have [I]way[/I] more options in terms of powers and features (accomplished in the past through spells and a spell list). Given his power level, it is expected for him to have features unheard of by mortals, which WotC has attempted at least. Now, I agree with other that WotC's spell lists in creatures is often lack luster and not great (IMO) considering what spells are available. Of course they make some good choices, but I see a lot of them as suboptimal so I have to change them anyway. [/QUOTE]

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