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<blockquote data-quote="dave2008" data-source="post: 8662391" data-attributes="member: 83242">OK, let's start from a common point.&nbsp; What do you consider the engine of D&amp;D? I don't really think I can discuss this with you without understanding where you are coming from. Then we can discuss.A few other comments...that completely misses the point of BA and its difference to 4e or 3e for that matter (and is also inaccurate for 5e at least).They were there before 4e too, but 4e treated them a bit differently. 5e goes back to the pre-4e method. That is point.That is a part of it, but it misses the point that so many of the 4e powers did something more than damage (push, pull, inflict a condition, etc.). That is what made it tactical, not to mention the synergies between characters. If you think it is just combat length, then I think you missed a lot. I mean I can easily make a 5e combat last 5, 10, or more rounds.&nbsp; But I can't make a 5e character have the in print tactical options a 4e character has.To some sure, to others they were.Not sure what you mean, but it is different from 5e in that regard.No, nothing really close (except casters) to what 4e had.Not the same, really at all.You deal realize Healing Surges, and the integration into the core of 4e, are fundamentally different from HD healing and healing in general in 5e?There was never a need for them, it just how they built the game.&nbsp; And just making 5e longer does not do anything accommodate healing surges and how they actually limited healing. Yes and now.&nbsp; Again, 4e was a unified design to a level that doesn't exist in 5e. And simple because you have some things that are similar, doesn't mean they are the same &quot;engine&quot; IMO. Of course, I have realized I have no idea what you mean by &quot;engine.&quot; I hope you can clarify.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="dave2008, post: 8662391, member: 83242"] OK, let's start from a common point. What do you consider the engine of D&D? I don't really think I can discuss this with you without understanding where you are coming from. Then we can discuss. A few other comments... that completely misses the point of BA and its difference to 4e or 3e for that matter (and is also inaccurate for 5e at least). They were there before 4e too, but 4e treated them a bit differently. 5e goes back to the pre-4e method. That is point. That is a part of it, but it misses the point that so many of the 4e powers did something more than damage (push, pull, inflict a condition, etc.). That is what made it tactical, not to mention the synergies between characters. If you think it is just combat length, then I think you missed a lot. I mean I can easily make a 5e combat last 5, 10, or more rounds. But I can't make a 5e character have the in print tactical options a 4e character has. To some sure, to others they were. Not sure what you mean, but it is different from 5e in that regard. No, nothing really close (except casters) to what 4e had. Not the same, really at all. You deal realize Healing Surges, and the integration into the core of 4e, are fundamentally different from HD healing and healing in general in 5e? There was never a need for them, it just how they built the game. And just making 5e longer does not do anything accommodate healing surges and how they actually limited healing. Yes and now. Again, 4e was a unified design to a level that doesn't exist in 5e. And simple because you have some things that are similar, doesn't mean they are the same "engine" IMO. Of course, I have realized I have no idea what you mean by "engine." I hope you can clarify. [/QUOTE]

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