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<blockquote data-quote="dave2008" data-source="post: 8662425" data-attributes="member: 83242">That wasn't my experience, but I was a DM and not a player.&nbsp; I didn't have any issue with spell casting monsters or NPCs. However, I also understand then, as I do now, that a statblock is just a starting point. 4e (and 5e too) had some good tools for improvising monsters / NPCs. Now, I only ran 2 groups through 4e:<ol>
<li data-xf-list-type="ol">Long time group that has played since HS (1e) and are pretty casual. They pick mostly fighter/rogue/ranger martial types, but we did have one wizard.&nbsp; I didn't hear any complaints from the Wizard player.</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ol">Group 2 was new to D&amp;D (my children and their friends). They had a mix of classes and included: druid, fighter, ranger, warlock, wizard, and&nbsp; a rogue. I don't recall any complaints from this group either. But then again they were new to the game and didn't have any expectations.</li>
</ol>So, IME, 4e didn't have any issue with caster characters or monsters / NPCs. Just pointing out that this argument is subjective.&nbsp; Caster and martials felt plenty different to at least some players. I know it wasn't just me as I was fairly active on the WotC 4e forums back in the day.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="dave2008, post: 8662425, member: 83242"] That wasn't my experience, but I was a DM and not a player. I didn't have any issue with spell casting monsters or NPCs. However, I also understand then, as I do now, that a statblock is just a starting point. 4e (and 5e too) had some good tools for improvising monsters / NPCs. Now, I only ran 2 groups through 4e: [LIST=1] [*]Long time group that has played since HS (1e) and are pretty casual. They pick mostly fighter/rogue/ranger martial types, but we did have one wizard. I didn't hear any complaints from the Wizard player. [*]Group 2 was new to D&D (my children and their friends). They had a mix of classes and included: druid, fighter, ranger, warlock, wizard, and a rogue. I don't recall any complaints from this group either. But then again they were new to the game and didn't have any expectations. [/LIST] So, IME, 4e didn't have any issue with caster characters or monsters / NPCs. Just pointing out that this argument is subjective. Caster and martials felt plenty different to at least some players. I know it wasn't just me as I was fairly active on the WotC 4e forums back in the day. [/QUOTE]

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