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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 8669567" data-attributes="member: 22779">well no, that's not quite right.Again, it's a tool.&nbsp; It's a predictive tool.&nbsp; So, with any predictive model, you have to make assumptions.&nbsp; So, you can't assume that you have a group of several casters that can largely endlessly spam Hypnotic Pattern.&nbsp; That's the DM's job.&nbsp; You're expecting CR to do everything, and it just doesn't.&nbsp; And it never has. And, let's not forget, you're taking a really extreme example.&nbsp; A group that solely uses charms is a really weird group and likely only exists in theory crafting white rooms.&nbsp; Far more likely, the group has a range of abilities because the group is smart enough to know that not all creatures can be charmed. The CR system is based on assumptions.&nbsp; The further you go from those assumptions, the less accurate CR will be.&nbsp; Of course.&nbsp; That's the nature of any predictive system.&nbsp; This isn't a secret though or something that couldn't possibly be known or deduced.&nbsp; It's pretty obvious.&nbsp; I guess they probably should state it up front, but, again, there's gotta be at least a minimal attempt by the user to understand the system when using it./edit to add after checkingOh wait, they actually DO tell you about this.&nbsp; There's a nifty little sidebar on page 82 that talks about how some monsters might not line up exactly with their CR number and the DM needs to be aware of this.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 8669567, member: 22779"] well no, that's not quite right. Again, it's a tool. It's a predictive tool. So, with any predictive model, you have to make assumptions. So, you can't assume that you have a group of several casters that can largely endlessly spam Hypnotic Pattern. That's the DM's job. You're expecting CR to do everything, and it just doesn't. And it never has. And, let's not forget, you're taking a really extreme example. A group that solely uses charms is a really weird group and likely only exists in theory crafting white rooms. Far more likely, the group has a range of abilities because the group is smart enough to know that not all creatures can be charmed. The CR system is based on assumptions. The further you go from those assumptions, the less accurate CR will be. Of course. That's the nature of any predictive system. This isn't a secret though or something that couldn't possibly be known or deduced. It's pretty obvious. I guess they probably should state it up front, but, again, there's gotta be at least a minimal attempt by the user to understand the system when using it. /edit to add after checking Oh wait, they actually DO tell you about this. There's a nifty little sidebar on page 82 that talks about how some monsters might not line up exactly with their CR number and the DM needs to be aware of this. [/QUOTE]

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