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New Summary and Release Date for 'Dragons of Deceit'
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<blockquote data-quote="MostlyHarmless42" data-source="post: 8458205" data-attributes="member: 6845520"><p>And a lot of people both comic fans and non-comic fans alike despise the inclusion of time travel retcons as well, particularly in the hamfisted and poorly written way both the MCU and the comics both handled it. Comic fans have <em>long</em> complained about characters not staying dead and utter lack of continuity with comics, and the MCU's handling of the multiverse and time travel thus far has been...bad. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the emotional ride that was the whole Infinity Saga, but it is not without its flaws an the half-baked time travel is <em>definitely</em> one of the weakest parts of it.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Would that we could. Were I handed the keys to the kingdom the first thing I would do would be to make sure Takhisis remains dead and buried and shift the story to newer times. I'd also tell a story that focuses less on more continuous wars and more the world and characters in it <em>recovering</em> from the non-stop wars they've had. Honestly the biggest pet peeve I have with all of these different fantasy settings is that it is <em>absurd</em> how quickly everyone and everything just "bounces back" from multiple world altering events like it's nothing and the setting itself has had literally like 5 world wars, TWO world changing disasters, and TWO generations of shorter lived races who basically have no clue who the heck these gods are anyway...all within the last 150 years. That would cause <em>untold</em> amounts of pain and suffering and while I get that wars are needed for tension and the setting I think the world needs a bit of a breather before a build up to the next war. Obviously the books should build up to that, but for petes sake give us a bit of a time skip or <em>some </em>sort of realistic sense of time/recovery.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The thing is, Age of Mortals arguably already has a sort of "Dark Sun light" vibe, which is perhaps why it might not be popular with some. It's a war-torn era where (from the mortal perspective) the gods have abandoned them...again, the heavens themselves have shifted and changed, magic is failing, and the lands are being torn apart and ravaged by giant dragons that are far too large to deal with conventionally. If that doesn't feel sort of borderline apocalyptic I don't know what does. I say it's "light" though simply because it never truly crosses the line into full apocalypse. The few issues I <em>do </em>have with the books themselves for this time period is that they do at times tend to be not the best written in quality, many of the more interesting characters are the dragons or gods themselves rather than some of the mortals, and some of the characters [<em>cough Dhamon Grimwulf cough</em>] are a bit... early 2000's edgy, which can feel a bit dated now?</p><p></p><p>In regards to a "modern" take in terms of classes and races, for my personal games I tend to run the game using any available races and just change the fluff. I make half-orcs half ogres, I use tiefling stats for Irda/high born ogres, I use Goliath for Tarmak tribes, I allow nomadic humans to be either traditional humans or half-orcs, and other options and so forth. I classify all magic users as either primal magic (sorcerers, bards, etc.) or focused magic (wizards, clerics, etc.). The terms aren't cannon sure, but the idea in the setting is certainly there for there being a difference between sorcerers and wizards and mystics and clerics, respectively. I also have a slew of alternative racials for halfings and dragonborn for kender and draconians and the like, and while I don't ever "ban" an option I do make it clear there are roleplaying implications for being something like a draconian with a breath weapon (i.e. they are "weird" or "abnormal" for their race. Player characters are supposed to be that way anyway.</p><p></p><p>It works fairly well and doesn't use require very much bending or even breaking of any of the cannon lore. The 5th edition books even help supplement the setting indirectly too. The ronoun rules that were in the DMG and expanded upon by the Ravnica book are REALLY nice for the knight orders, wizards, cleric and sorcerer orders, and the Piety system from Theros is AMAZING for the setting, at least as far as how I tend to handle the gods in Dragonlance as opposed to another setting like Fae'Run. The point is it works better than most want to admit.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'd argue the Age of Mortals did that already, if any of the discourse online is any indication.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I agree with this 100%. A good Dragonlance tale is a classic hero's journey in format. Ideally they should come from if not humble origins, though I know mercs are often common. But that same reasoning is also part of the reason why I grow so annoyed at people so attached to the original trilogy is I feel like it largely defeats the exact premise of creating characters and telling your <em>own </em>stories. The War of the Lance is just objectively the worst time to tell stories in due to being <strong><em>so </em></strong>detailed and fleshed out it's akin to running a Middle Earth game during the events of Lord of the Rings. Sure you can...but <em>why?</em> It'll just make your characters feel like they are second fiddle, or worse yet you'll either feel railroaded to follow the books: or deviate so far from them that using the time period becomes pointless. I mean why <em>wouldn't</em> your characters be involved in a war that literally spans the entire continent and has the fate of the world literally rest on its outcome? Especially for those who are calling for a remake of the game modules because arguably Tyranny of Dragons <em><strong>is</strong></em> that remake. We need <em>new</em> material to work with, not continuing to dwell in the past.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="MostlyHarmless42, post: 8458205, member: 6845520"] And a lot of people both comic fans and non-comic fans alike despise the inclusion of time travel retcons as well, particularly in the hamfisted and poorly written way both the MCU and the comics both handled it. Comic fans have [I]long[/I] complained about characters not staying dead and utter lack of continuity with comics, and the MCU's handling of the multiverse and time travel thus far has been...bad. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the emotional ride that was the whole Infinity Saga, but it is not without its flaws an the half-baked time travel is [I]definitely[/I] one of the weakest parts of it. Would that we could. Were I handed the keys to the kingdom the first thing I would do would be to make sure Takhisis remains dead and buried and shift the story to newer times. I'd also tell a story that focuses less on more continuous wars and more the world and characters in it [I]recovering[/I] from the non-stop wars they've had. Honestly the biggest pet peeve I have with all of these different fantasy settings is that it is [I]absurd[/I] how quickly everyone and everything just "bounces back" from multiple world altering events like it's nothing and the setting itself has had literally like 5 world wars, TWO world changing disasters, and TWO generations of shorter lived races who basically have no clue who the heck these gods are anyway...all within the last 150 years. That would cause [I]untold[/I] amounts of pain and suffering and while I get that wars are needed for tension and the setting I think the world needs a bit of a breather before a build up to the next war. Obviously the books should build up to that, but for petes sake give us a bit of a time skip or [I]some [/I]sort of realistic sense of time/recovery. The thing is, Age of Mortals arguably already has a sort of "Dark Sun light" vibe, which is perhaps why it might not be popular with some. It's a war-torn era where (from the mortal perspective) the gods have abandoned them...again, the heavens themselves have shifted and changed, magic is failing, and the lands are being torn apart and ravaged by giant dragons that are far too large to deal with conventionally. If that doesn't feel sort of borderline apocalyptic I don't know what does. I say it's "light" though simply because it never truly crosses the line into full apocalypse. The few issues I [I]do [/I]have with the books themselves for this time period is that they do at times tend to be not the best written in quality, many of the more interesting characters are the dragons or gods themselves rather than some of the mortals, and some of the characters [[I]cough Dhamon Grimwulf cough[/I]] are a bit... early 2000's edgy, which can feel a bit dated now? In regards to a "modern" take in terms of classes and races, for my personal games I tend to run the game using any available races and just change the fluff. I make half-orcs half ogres, I use tiefling stats for Irda/high born ogres, I use Goliath for Tarmak tribes, I allow nomadic humans to be either traditional humans or half-orcs, and other options and so forth. I classify all magic users as either primal magic (sorcerers, bards, etc.) or focused magic (wizards, clerics, etc.). The terms aren't cannon sure, but the idea in the setting is certainly there for there being a difference between sorcerers and wizards and mystics and clerics, respectively. I also have a slew of alternative racials for halfings and dragonborn for kender and draconians and the like, and while I don't ever "ban" an option I do make it clear there are roleplaying implications for being something like a draconian with a breath weapon (i.e. they are "weird" or "abnormal" for their race. Player characters are supposed to be that way anyway. It works fairly well and doesn't use require very much bending or even breaking of any of the cannon lore. The 5th edition books even help supplement the setting indirectly too. The ronoun rules that were in the DMG and expanded upon by the Ravnica book are REALLY nice for the knight orders, wizards, cleric and sorcerer orders, and the Piety system from Theros is AMAZING for the setting, at least as far as how I tend to handle the gods in Dragonlance as opposed to another setting like Fae'Run. The point is it works better than most want to admit. I'd argue the Age of Mortals did that already, if any of the discourse online is any indication. I agree with this 100%. A good Dragonlance tale is a classic hero's journey in format. Ideally they should come from if not humble origins, though I know mercs are often common. But that same reasoning is also part of the reason why I grow so annoyed at people so attached to the original trilogy is I feel like it largely defeats the exact premise of creating characters and telling your [I]own [/I]stories. The War of the Lance is just objectively the worst time to tell stories in due to being [B][I]so [/I][/B]detailed and fleshed out it's akin to running a Middle Earth game during the events of Lord of the Rings. Sure you can...but [I]why?[/I] It'll just make your characters feel like they are second fiddle, or worse yet you'll either feel railroaded to follow the books: or deviate so far from them that using the time period becomes pointless. I mean why [I]wouldn't[/I] your characters be involved in a war that literally spans the entire continent and has the fate of the world literally rest on its outcome? Especially for those who are calling for a remake of the game modules because arguably Tyranny of Dragons [I][B]is[/B][/I] that remake. We need [I]new[/I] material to work with, not continuing to dwell in the past. [/QUOTE]
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