New troglodytes

Perun

Mushroom
New Realmslore article is up at WotC (link).

The article mentions troglodytes as the lich's servitors... and on the pic there's something lizard-like (the flying thing is, obviously, a gargoyle), but it's far bulkier than traditional troglodytes... then again, the lizardfolk concept sketch from one of the design & development articles featured a bulky lizardman.
 

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tresson

First Post
So are you suggesting that the monsters have been putting on some wieght between 3rd and 4th edition? I guess that means we adventurers need to give them a bit of 'excersise'....and then take their stuff.
 

Tewligan

First Post
Didn't we see either a forthcoming D&D mini or concept sketch (forget which) of a troglodyte that looked like this? The troglodyte seems to be one of the many victims of the edition change.
 


Am I the only one who's never used a trog outside the long-ago D series? Smelly lizardmen just seem like a waste of space, or a sub-entry under regular lizardmen.
 


KingCrab

First Post
Whizbang Dustyboots said:
Am I the only one who's never used a trog outside the long-ago D series? Smelly lizardmen just seem like a waste of space, or a sub-entry under regular lizardmen.

I most recently remember them from the "Learn how to play D&D" tutorial off of WotC's 3.x website.
 

Whizbang Dustyboots said:
Am I the only one who's never used a trog outside the long-ago D series? Smelly lizardmen just seem like a waste of space, or a sub-entry under regular lizardmen.

I've used both trogs and lizardmen plenty. Lizardmen are the savage dinosaur-people that live in the jungles and marshes, trogs are the lovecraftian Tsathoggua-worshipping subterranean degenerate elder evil race.
 

Perun

Mushroom
I personally prefer the 2e MM Toni DiTerlizzi's troglodytes. They're humanoid only in the most basic sense, and their heads and faces are salamander-like.

Although Sam Wood's 3(.5) MM troglodyte isn't bad either.

I just don't get the buff lizard hype that seems to be present in 4e ;)
 

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Irda Ranger

First Post
Interesting article.

So, there were warlocks in 199 DR? I guess they've decided to go with "retcon" in that department, rather than let the Spellplague explain it.

A master of gem magic, ...
What do you think this means? Asharon is a warlock, not a wizard, so it's not a 'wizard tradition' like Emerald Frost. Likewise the two perfect emeralds that are his eyes probably aren't "orb" implements.

The lich controls his minions by means of a ritual in which he embeds a magic emerald in the flesh .... the ritual dominates the creature, and it also gives Asbaron the ability to perceive what his enslaved monsters perceive and issue them telepathic commands ... in practice he only looks in a particular monster for a few minutes at a time once every day or so ...
I find this passage fascinating.

1. We have rituals. This sounds like a very powerful one, but it does require expensive and magical material components and he is a lich, so we can assume its rather high-level.

2. The limitations are practical, rather than hard coded. It says he can watch through their eyes for long periods of time, but that the real limited resource is his attention: he only has 24 hours in the day, no matter what level he is, and has lots of important stuff to do. Just because he can look through their eyes does not imply that he usually (or even often) is.

I like both of those. A lot.

Asbaron's servitors include a number of undead ... a large tribe of troglodytes, a band of gargoyles, and a variety of monstrous guardians such as leucrottas, manticores and a gorgon.
Evidence of "mixed monster" encounter design. I bet all of the monster roles are represented in that list.

Also, we have "regular" troglodytes and a troglodyte shaman. Since I doubt they're going to write up a shaman class (and monsters don't have classes anyway) I wonder how many types of trogs the MM supports.

A shrine to Orcus ...
Cross-racial deific appeal makes its entrance in the Realms. Orcus is not limited to being a demon or the orc pantheon.
 

Rechan

Adventurer
I actually like trogs being the brutish, bulky lizard guys. Reminds me of crocodiles/komodo dragons.

Meanwhile, to me lizardfolk are sleek and anole-like.
 


Perun said:
I just don't get the buff lizard hype that seems to be present in 4e ;)


Ditto, for me the distinction was/is

Lizardmen: Humanoid body, although scaled/tailed/clawed, with lizardy head

Troglodyte: Blasphemous lizard that walks upright and uses tools

The other rmain distinction:

Lizardmen are like pulp savages (but more "cold-blooded"), they may try to cook and eat you or you might hire them as guides. Neighboring humans know about them, may know some lizardtongue, and some lizardmen speak pidgin versions of human tongues. Most lizardmen are neutral swamp dwellers, but there have been a couple lizardman adventurers, gladiators, mercenaries, etc. A lizardmen could become lawful good, a wizrad, a monk, what have-you.

With Troglodytes, nobody (aiside from eldrich horrors and sages who study obscure races) knows their language (which also uses scent, posture and color-changing skin to communicate). Trogs don't ordinarily communicate with other races, they just kill them, take their stuff, eat the bodies and sometimes take live captives to sacrifice. Trogs are ALWAYS chatic evil...they serve as a servitor/puppet race for demonic horrors (Demogorgon, Tsathoggua, Laogzed, Jubilex, etc). Trogs don't leave their nests and see the outside world, they don't have families, they don't drink alcohol or gamble, they don't really have possessions, they have a sort of chaotic evil "hive mind."
 

Dog Moon

Adventurer
Whizbang Dustyboots said:
Am I the only one who's never used a trog outside the long-ago D series? Smelly lizardmen just seem like a waste of space, or a sub-entry under regular lizardmen.

I've used them once. Became a memorable fight for our group, though not NECESSARILY in a good way. Trogs have a decent Natural Armor bonus, but when you add Full Plate and put them up against low-level PCs....HARD as heck to hit. Never seen as much Assisting to attack rolls as I did in that fight.
 

Rechan said:
Huh, I thought that's what grimlocks were.

Thing is, I've already got enough evil subterranean races. Grimlocks haven't made the cut so far IMC.

But yeah, they'd be the descendents of "furry pre-human" Tsathoggua worshippers that went underground.

EDIT: Another reason I love using trgolodytes....they can make PCs vomit with their odor!!
 

Blair Goatsblood said:
I've used both trogs and lizardmen plenty. Lizardmen are the savage dinosaur-people that live in the jungles and marshes, trogs are the lovecraftian Tsathoggua-worshipping subterranean degenerate elder evil race.
I call that cultural differences, myself, or a cultural difference with the "stinky" quality attached, whether it be by a 3E template or 4E special ability or something.
 

Nyaricus

First Post
Blair Goatsblood said:
Ditto, for me the distinction was/is

Lizardmen: Humanoid body, although scaled/tailed/clawed, with lizardy head

Troglodyte: Blasphemous lizard that walks upright and uses tools

The other rmain distinction:

Lizardmen are like pulp savages (but more "cold-blooded"), they may try to cook and eat you or you might hire them as guides. Neighboring humans know about them, may know some lizardtongue, and some lizardmen speak pidgin versions of human tongues. Most lizardmen are neutral swamp dwellers, but there have been a couple lizardman adventurers, gladiators, mercenaries, etc. A lizardmen could become lawful good, a wizrad, a monk, what have-you.

With Troglodytes, nobody (aiside from eldrich horrors and sages who study obscure races) knows their language (which also uses scent, posture and color-changing skin to communicate). Trogs don't ordinarily communicate with other races, they just kill them, take their stuff, eat the bodies and sometimes take live captives to sacrifice. Trogs are ALWAYS chatic evil...they serve as a servitor/puppet race for demonic horrors (Demogorgon, Tsathoggua, Laogzed, Jubilex, etc). Trogs don't leave their nests and see the outside world, they don't have families, they don't drink alcohol or gamble, they don't really have possessions, they have a sort of chaotic evil "hive mind."
Well, that's definitely *yoinked*!!

cheers,
--N
 

Steely Dan

Banned
Banned
Why do I think of a chubby saurial when I look at the 4th Ed trog?

…But they do look better than the potbellied versions we've had so far, IMO.
 


Nifft

Penguin Herder
I haven't really used Trogs in 3.0e or 3.5e -- though I do use them in DDM skirmish play. :)

IMHO there were too many humanoid races in the MM. I'd prefer if WotC cut down on the number of those, possibly including Trogs. Humans are worth XP, too!

Cheers, -- N
 

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