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Message: <blockquote data-quote="doctorbadwolf" data-source="post: 7812937" data-attributes="member: 6704184">Oh sacred night I hate you right now....<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f606.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":LOL:" title="Laugh    :LOL:"  data-smilie="17"data-shortname=":LOL:" />Anyway, my thoughts on a quick read through., The Sorcerer is quite safe from being made obsolete. Partly because even if Undeniable Logic (seriously this subclass is going to facilitate really really obnoxious behavior), "make obsolete" a sorcerer metamagic option in some sense, and I'm not sure how it possibly could when they're two separate class and the two options do different things, there's nothing actually wrong with that. It's one metamagic option. If a player's whole concept is "giving enemies disad on saves"...expect more from your players. It would be completely untenable nonsense to avoid mechanics for the rest of the life of the game just because one option out of several within one class feature does a similar thing. It also requires a save to impose the effect on the target, where Heightened Spell doesn't. And this usage competes with the other usage. Even if you made a character that had both this subclass and 6 levels of bard, and levels of sorcerer and Heighened Spell as one of their metamagic options, there would be times to use HS to simply apply disadvantage with no way out of that, and times where Obnoxious Logic would be the better option. Cool! That aside, I think I really hate the bard subclass. Or least the names of it's abilities. Level 3 is less fun than it could be. Calm Emotions is fine, I guess, but the other ability is just kinda...lame, to me. Just give me the ability to learn new languages easily, and give me like 5 bonus languages, and the ability to spend a BI to speak to creatures that can't normally speak any humanoid language. IDK, the idea of rolling to see how many people in a crowd can magically understand me is just...it's using the dice roll exclusively for the sake of making sure that the die gets rolled. It makes my eyes roll.level 14 is fun, but over-complicated, and confusingly worded. Desperately needs a rewrite. Speaking of that level 14 ability...Can we just get a Bard that uses "Songs of" abilities to inspire the whole group? I have come torealise that this is the main thing that decreases my enjoyment of the Bard as a class in 5e, aside from the fact that spellcasting eats too much of the design space of the class, leaving too little room for the power of words and song and story, which is what I'd prefer the Bard's identity be based on. Without getting into deep lore on worlds none of you will ever play in, I'll use an example of what I want to do as a Bard from a thing my friend did in a Star Wars game. The Sith army had boarded the ship, there was no victory here, only escape or death. My friend's Jedi defied that reality, stood in a doorway, told his fellows, "There is no death. There is only the Force." and ignited his lightsaber for a last stand. Inspiring everyone to victory in the process, though he fell in the course of that victory. That's a bard moment. The bard should be able to do that, and every ally that hears it is inspired in a way that no one else could accomplish. So give me a damn subclass, or some Bard only spells, or something, that accomplishes this. Even in 4e, there were Daily Powers that inspired your whole group and were meant to be used early on or to turn the tide. Anyway, on to the Paladin! I love it. Print it as is.</blockquote>

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