Newbee's Problem of Evil

[WhatGravitas]

I've read lots of good advice from all ends of this, and still reading. Thanks! To answer your question why I "suspect" they want to be evil, it's that most of them selected an evil alignment (but actually not my own son), and I only suspect it because I don't have confidence that they understand how this really works and whether being evil will work best for them.

If they've picked it before play, you may want to ditch alignments. Let them put it on their sheets, but just don't think about it. React as logic and sense for cinematic action dictates. If they want to be evil-curious, they're probably happy with the label and throwing out some nasty actions or tacky one-liners. If they want to push their evil edge, it will happen - and you can still ask for more advice!

EDIT: Argh. Basically what Clueless said.

Cheers, LT.

 

[rossrebailey]

As a matter of fact, I told them at the beginning that what they picked didn't matter much to me because I was going to see what it really was from what they did! Just call me a nervous and curious first-time DM.

 

[Clueless]

EDIT: Argh. Basically what Clueless said.
Cheers, LT.

*cackle* I am ninja-in-your-brain.

 

[GammaPaladin]

And let us know how it goes! I always think it's cool when people game with their families

 

[demiurge1138]

I'm going to echo the stuff a lot of other people have said on this thread:

Selfishness, greed, pride and a desire for revenge make for great motivations for neutral-to-evil PCs.

Double, triple and quadruple crosses, if you can get them to work, are great fun. This applies to the NPCs crossing the PCs and the PCs crossing NPCs both.

Make sure they don't play Chaotic Stupid. Evil people have friends, families, allies too. Their actions have consequences, and these consequences can be up to and including a party of adventurers hired to stop them.

The Eberron Campaign Setting book has a great chapter on adventure design, and almost all of the types of adventures listed are for Shades of Grey characters. Treasure hunts, espionage, rivals...

If you do eventually want your PCs to save the world, make sure that you're motivating them with selfish means, not altruism. After all, the world is where they keep their stuff. Also, don't be too surprised if they try to profit off of or ride the wave of apocalypse, rather than oppose it.

If they're into that sort of thing, you could focus on the nuances of evil, such as making major conflicts about Law and Chaos, rather than Good and Evil. There's no better enemy for a group of devil-may-care scoundrels than actual Devils.

Demiurge out.

 

[Ipissimus]

Another echo; but I agree with Shilsen. But it does depend to a degree on what alignments you're dealing with.

Lawful Evil is the easiest to integrate into a party. Lawful Evil characters understand orders, heirarchy and working with others. They may chafe when they're not in charge but that doesn't mean they'll kill a leader they respect in his or her sleep.

Neutral Evil is harder. The iconic Neutral Evil character is selfish to extremes which may provoke a player to steal from his own party, which will probably result in that character being lynched. The trick is that the other party members should be viewed as assets. You keep the fighter around to shield your meat, the cleric around to heal you, the rogue to get hit by the poison darts, etc.

Chaotic Evil is the hardest. If one of your players wants to be Chaotic Evil, warning bells should go off in your head. Unless you know that they're not a spoiler who wants to take their enjoyment from wrecking your game, I'd get them to reconsider. If you think you can handle it, which is definitely possible, then a well played Chaotic Evil character can be rewarding. Just be sure they just don't want to play serial killer and take the game places you don't want it to go. Chaotic Evil people have one 'flaw' to exploit that gets them to work in groups: they respect power. Drow society works because the bigger fish keep a tight leash on the smaller fish. As long as the party can keep their mad dog on the leash, it's fine.

The other tip I can give you is to tailor your adventures to the selfish mindset. Don't even try to appeal to the PC's sympathies; make sure there is a clear profit motive for all their adventures. The classic Evil adventure generally starts out with a merchant offering a sum of money for the PCs to perform a service. This service could be anything from robbing a tomb to assassinating a rival to bodyguard duty for a criminal kingpin.

Oh, and watch out if the subject of brothels comes up. Handled maturely, it can be good and add variety to the game, or even motivations. In my experience, though, teenagers don't really handle the subject maturely...

 

[Herobizkit]

I'm not a shrink, but I find that in new/inexperienced players, the first instinct is to "do what you can't do in real life and get away with it". This could be seen as Evil, but really, I would worry less about alignment and more on keeping the players entertained. If they're still learning the system, why bog them down with "you're playing your alignment wrong"? Rules, tactics, and learning how they mingle is the order of the day.

To wit, I would find or encourage the PC's to create a common bond that keeps them together, even if it is as simple as loot or a common foe. I would also consider running a series of pre-gen modules, and treat each module like an episode of a TV serial; instead of worrying about the LotR-style sweeping epic, let the A-Team do their work and reap the reward at the end of the day. If they're any bit worthy of the title of adventurer, one of them is going to want to build some sort of safehouse/base/stronghold in which to keep all their ill-gotten gains. That, alone, will take a lot of their attention for a time. Encourage it, and have NPCs come to visit and ask for help.

Heck, the A-Team tagline should say it all:
"Ten years ago / In 1972 [or whenever], a crack commando unit was sent to prison by a military court for a crime they didn't commit. These men promptly escaped from a maximum security stockade to the Los Angeles [or wherever] underground. Today, still wanted by the government, they survive as soldiers of fortune. If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire... The A-Team."

DAA DAA daa DAA! daa DAA daaaa....

 

[PeterGirvan]

If they want to play evil, why not let them play it out without trying to create common bonds, themes, or other artificial props? If they can navigate the campaign's waters without betraying each other, great. If the whole thing blows up in a bloody pool of backstabs, great!

Either way they learn valuable lessons on how to play the game and about the types of campaigns they might want to play in the future---and they will learn in them in a way to remember since you've put the game in their hands rather than trying to steer them in any direction.

-Peter

 

[Mallus]

Either way they learn valuable lessons on how to play the game and about the types of campaigns they might want to play in the future...

The most valuable lesson in how to play D&D is this: all participants should talk about the game openly, both before a campaign begins and throughout it's run.

I'm not big on trying to manipulate people, but running a recreational activity as some form of sociology experiment doesn't exactly seem fair either. Talking things out is always a good idea.