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<blockquote data-quote="Yaarel" data-source="post: 7726932" data-attributes="member: 58172"><p>The argument where feelings hardened is now removed. Based on hearsay, the argument centered on a reallife incident where a woman was groped on a bus. The sexual aggression was clearly unwanted, but she didnt know how to respond, and froze up.</p><p></p><p>The debate seems to have polarized. Both seeming to take extreme positions. Mentzer ended up in the position of actually saying it was her fault that she failed to defend herself. In other words, blaming the victim.</p><p></p><p>Yet the opposite extreme is equally idiotic.</p><p></p><p>Is Price actually arguing that women are incapable of thinking for themselves, and that men must take all responsibility and make all decisions about women, on behalf of women, because women are delicate, helpless, hapless creatures? </p><p></p><p>Obviously women are capable, and can make decisions for themselves and assert their own interests.</p><p></p><p>Women, like men, are fully capable. And a self-defense class or two wouldnt hurt.</p><p></p><p>The truth is somewhere between the extremes.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I am a man. By my personality I dont really flirt. By I have friends who flirt, I envy them, and they make the world a more beautiful fun place. I like it when people flirt with me − heh, both women and men − as long as it is light and fun, it is flattering. But the trick to flirting is knowing when it isnt working. When it isnt working, its not working. A few times in my life, someone crossed lines. And I have to say, I froze. So I get why that woman on the bus froze. On the one hand, I honestly didnt want to hurt the feelings of the person doing it. On the other hand, the advance was viscerally unwanted. Fortunately, in my case, these persons realized the pass was unreciprocated and relented. And their feelings got hurt anyway. In hindsight, I can look back on the situation with some sympathy and amusement. But only because they stopped. I dont know what I would do if they had failed to stop. So, I froze. Yet, I am also a capable person. It wouldnt hurt if I learned a trick or two to deal with this kind of situation.</p><p></p><p>Heh, and I am including one time I was out of town, and went to a religious service there − and a woman there was aggressively, publicly, was trying to get me to meet and marry her daughter. The truth is, this elderly woman was intelligent and elegant, and if the daughter was anything like her, I might be interested. But when it is not working, it is not working. And no, means, no.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Yaarel, post: 7726932, member: 58172"] The argument where feelings hardened is now removed. Based on hearsay, the argument centered on a reallife incident where a woman was groped on a bus. The sexual aggression was clearly unwanted, but she didnt know how to respond, and froze up. The debate seems to have polarized. Both seeming to take extreme positions. Mentzer ended up in the position of actually saying it was her fault that she failed to defend herself. In other words, blaming the victim. Yet the opposite extreme is equally idiotic. Is Price actually arguing that women are incapable of thinking for themselves, and that men must take all responsibility and make all decisions about women, on behalf of women, because women are delicate, helpless, hapless creatures? Obviously women are capable, and can make decisions for themselves and assert their own interests. Women, like men, are fully capable. And a self-defense class or two wouldnt hurt. The truth is somewhere between the extremes. I am a man. By my personality I dont really flirt. By I have friends who flirt, I envy them, and they make the world a more beautiful fun place. I like it when people flirt with me − heh, both women and men − as long as it is light and fun, it is flattering. But the trick to flirting is knowing when it isnt working. When it isnt working, its not working. A few times in my life, someone crossed lines. And I have to say, I froze. So I get why that woman on the bus froze. On the one hand, I honestly didnt want to hurt the feelings of the person doing it. On the other hand, the advance was viscerally unwanted. Fortunately, in my case, these persons realized the pass was unreciprocated and relented. And their feelings got hurt anyway. In hindsight, I can look back on the situation with some sympathy and amusement. But only because they stopped. I dont know what I would do if they had failed to stop. So, I froze. Yet, I am also a capable person. It wouldnt hurt if I learned a trick or two to deal with this kind of situation. Heh, and I am including one time I was out of town, and went to a religious service there − and a woman there was aggressively, publicly, was trying to get me to meet and marry her daughter. The truth is, this elderly woman was intelligent and elegant, and if the daughter was anything like her, I might be interested. But when it is not working, it is not working. And no, means, no. [/QUOTE]
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