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<blockquote data-quote="Coffey Kin" data-source="post: 7727060" data-attributes="member: 6904251"><p>I believe them both. I have also seen Rashômon, FWIW. It seems most if not all of the actions (of both) at the heart of the matter took place on facebook threads (aka a game of textual telephone that nearly always ends in a hot mess) which I'm sure only exacerbated the Rashomon effect. But Rashomon only speaks to their respective accountings of what happened.</p><p></p><p>As for Mentzer's views, I liken it to my 5th grade teacher (if only to pick a non-sensitive & apolitical example). She was older, probably near to retirement. She thought Greenland was a continent, likely because that was what she was taught herself (or maybe she simply misinterpreted a Mercator projection). Didn't make her a bad person, or ignorant on the whole. That didn't mean that everything she taught or was involved with academically was invalid, or that she should be drummed out of polite society. 50 years from now, it is almost guaranteed each of us will still believe something that was always wrong, was proven wrong or simply changed after we learned it, or something right or wrong that is no longer fashionable. Maybe it will be about something as inconsequential as whether Greenland is a continent. Maybe about something more consequential, or of a more sensitive topic.</p><p></p><p>5th grade me was much more concerned with accuracy at the time. She was wrong! (Yes, I was that kid.) So I spoke up and told her so in front of the class. I wasn't rude ...exactly... but I certainly could have handled it better, with more compassion, empathy and humility. Some may object that there are some things that are so egregious, that such only enables others. We should all face the consequences of our actions, and we leave ourselves open to judgment of others by our words and acts. Even so, I'd point to Daryl Davis and his work with members of the KKK as one example of dealing with people who hold or once held the most egregious and odious of views. We can't all be like Daryl, but it can be done. And successfully, I'd note, as Daryl has changed minds. At the very least, can't we just let someone be wrong on the internet on occasion? Well, unless they believe Greenland is bigger than Africa, or Antarctica isn't a continent. </p><p></p><p>But if we must correct, compassion, empathy and humility are more likely to sway hearts and minds than other tactics. I have seen Mr. Mentzer called a predator, comparisons to Harvey Weinstein, and seen actions elsewhere intended to harm his livelihood such as having cons disinvite him (I assume he'd be paid) -- mostly on teh Twitters, so par for course. These folks too deserve compassion, though they are wrong in going much too far, I believe. I will also note that this is not directed at Ms. Price -- from what I have seen, I find little to fault with her on the whole concerning this. </p><p></p><p>Lastly, I'll add my +1 to those who give kudos Enworld as an oasis of civility. BravoZulu!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Coffey Kin, post: 7727060, member: 6904251"] I believe them both. I have also seen Rashômon, FWIW. It seems most if not all of the actions (of both) at the heart of the matter took place on facebook threads (aka a game of textual telephone that nearly always ends in a hot mess) which I'm sure only exacerbated the Rashomon effect. But Rashomon only speaks to their respective accountings of what happened. As for Mentzer's views, I liken it to my 5th grade teacher (if only to pick a non-sensitive & apolitical example). She was older, probably near to retirement. She thought Greenland was a continent, likely because that was what she was taught herself (or maybe she simply misinterpreted a Mercator projection). Didn't make her a bad person, or ignorant on the whole. That didn't mean that everything she taught or was involved with academically was invalid, or that she should be drummed out of polite society. 50 years from now, it is almost guaranteed each of us will still believe something that was always wrong, was proven wrong or simply changed after we learned it, or something right or wrong that is no longer fashionable. Maybe it will be about something as inconsequential as whether Greenland is a continent. Maybe about something more consequential, or of a more sensitive topic. 5th grade me was much more concerned with accuracy at the time. She was wrong! (Yes, I was that kid.) So I spoke up and told her so in front of the class. I wasn't rude ...exactly... but I certainly could have handled it better, with more compassion, empathy and humility. Some may object that there are some things that are so egregious, that such only enables others. We should all face the consequences of our actions, and we leave ourselves open to judgment of others by our words and acts. Even so, I'd point to Daryl Davis and his work with members of the KKK as one example of dealing with people who hold or once held the most egregious and odious of views. We can't all be like Daryl, but it can be done. And successfully, I'd note, as Daryl has changed minds. At the very least, can't we just let someone be wrong on the internet on occasion? Well, unless they believe Greenland is bigger than Africa, or Antarctica isn't a continent. But if we must correct, compassion, empathy and humility are more likely to sway hearts and minds than other tactics. I have seen Mr. Mentzer called a predator, comparisons to Harvey Weinstein, and seen actions elsewhere intended to harm his livelihood such as having cons disinvite him (I assume he'd be paid) -- mostly on teh Twitters, so par for course. These folks too deserve compassion, though they are wrong in going much too far, I believe. I will also note that this is not directed at Ms. Price -- from what I have seen, I find little to fault with her on the whole concerning this. Lastly, I'll add my +1 to those who give kudos Enworld as an oasis of civility. BravoZulu! [/QUOTE]
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