Newsworthy! Gamma world now under the S&SS banner!

[ColonelHardisson]

Y'r ob'd'n't Gamma World developer here.

My view is that Gamma World is a place where "that's contrary to known science" is never ever a valid objection all on its own. "That's not fun" may well be. If the bear can't fire laser beams from its eyes, the game ain't done, or so I figure. The core of it has to be beer-and-pretzels fun like a big-screen action movie with no limit on the special effects and of course clever players to co-write and star.

I want it to have the potential for more than that, looting traditions of tribal and cultural heroes in the face of disaster. But it starts with "see the monster, hit the monster" fun.

Could you expand on this a bit, Bruce? I was wondering if you would be willing to state that it will be intended for long-term play. One of the bones of contention about Omega World was the perception that it wasn't designed for campaign play; I figure you can preempt some arguments about Gamma World by giving a "mission statement" right off the bat.

 

[Danzilla]

Mmmmm...warm Gamma World memories...get me all warm and toasty...


Ouch....must remember to remove feet from heater vent beore it gets too hot...


Heh, I remember sneaking up behind the parties mutated humanoid bug and going...BzzzZaaaaaaappppp!!!!! really loudly(verbally)....was able to pull off a racial memory thing...sent him into an epileptic fit....

I think I was playing a mutant ferret in that game...or maybe another one...they all blur...anyway, back to the ferret, I had narcolepsy and everytime we got into a fight he would emit a poisonous knockout gas and fall asleep...the party tended to just throom me into the fight like a gas grenade...

Anyway, those were kinder, gentler times...



DanZilla

 

[Gary N. Mengle]

Not to rain on anyone's parade here, but I am wholly unenthused at the prospect of seeing yet another incarnation of a proven failure like Gamma World. Frankly, I suspect that the only reason it was given so many chances by the old regime at TSR was that it was Jim Ward's game. Despite that, it never managed to remain in print for long.

I wish Bruce and the other fine folks at WW the best; my guess is that they will turn it into a great, possibly even successful product.

I'd love to see a griity post-apocalypse game something like The Road Warrior - desperate battles for survival in a world gone to radioactive crap. Gamma World was never that game.

 

[Mindcrime]

I'm having geek-gasms just thinking about Bruce Baugh + Gamma World. What an amazing combination.

Chris

 

[Legion]

I completely agree. I love Bruce's stuff. Anyone see the editing job he did on Nobilis?? A creative genuis' dream!!!

Gamma World has always been a favorite of mine, ever since I first discovered it and Morrow Project.

I'll definitely have this on my wish list.

 

[BruceB]

To be explicit, I have ambitious plans for long-term campaign options in Gamma World, including multi-generational civilization building for those that would like to do that.

Gary, you're perfectly justified in having some skepticism. I do think there's a difference between games which tanked because of lack of audience and games which tanked for other reasons, and the evidence I have suggests to me that there is a sizable population of folks quite willing to buy Gamma World if it's offered to them. The multiple editions and general hoohah seem to be the result of TSR bungling rather than any innate failure of the games to find their audience. And of course getting a small fraction of those old sales is meaningful in a way that getting a small fraction of the typical small-press niche game wouldn't be.

I am quite sure, however, that there's no lasting market for a Road Warrior sort of game, and I can explain why. What do the PCs actually do? Drive around and shoot things? Scrounge fuel between bouts of driving? That's all covered by existing games, and it's not sustainable. There's no scope for what I'm calling these days "character significance". Even dungeon crawls have more lasting significance to the game world than that, by standard conventions, because cleared dungeons tend to stay cleared. I happen to have a real fondness for "guys in wasteland" stories and movies, but they're not very gamable - they're the stuff of a single short supplement for some existing game line.

Bleak games of unchangeable environments don't sell very well, and when they do sell okay they don't get played much. It will be possible to do epic saga-style tragedy with my edition of Gamma World, if I do my job right, but that's a very different thing from the modern nihilistic drama of futility. And it won't be a common mode of play even if I supply good support for it; most folks will play with a vigorous mix of melodrama and sheer barbaric triumph over adversity. And that's okay with me.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

To be explicit, I have ambitious plans for long-term campaign options in Gamma World, including multi-generational civilization building for those that would like to do that.

Hooray! I'm saving this thread for posterity!

Gary, you're perfectly justified in having some skepticism. I do think there's a difference between games which tanked because of lack of audience and games which tanked for other reasons, and the evidence I have suggests to me that there is a sizable population of folks quite willing to buy Gamma World if it's offered to them. The multiple editions and general hoohah seem to be the result of TSR bungling rather than any innate failure of the games to find their audience. And of course getting a small fraction of those old sales is meaningful in a way that getting a small fraction of the typical small-press niche game wouldn't be.

I am quite sure, however, that there's no lasting market for a Road Warrior sort of game, and I can explain why. What do the PCs actually do? Drive around and shoot things? Scrounge fuel between bouts of driving? That's all covered by existing games, and it's not sustainable. There's no scope for what I'm calling these days "character significance". Even dungeon crawls have more lasting significance to the game world than that, by standard conventions, because cleared dungeons tend to stay cleared. I happen to have a real fondness for "guys in wasteland" stories and movies, but they're not very gamable - they're the stuff of a single short supplement for some existing game line.

Bleak games of unchangeable environments don't sell very well, and when they do sell okay they don't get played much. It will be possible to do epic saga-style tragedy with my edition of Gamma World, if I do my job right, but that's a very different thing from the modern nihilistic drama of futility. And it won't be a common mode of play even if I supply good support for it; most folks will play with a vigorous mix of melodrama and sheer barbaric triumph over adversity. And that's okay with me.

I have to agree with all of this. A "Road Warrior" type game has been attempted a few times over the years, Twilight: 2000 being perhaps the most well-known attempt. Besides T:2k, I can't think of another game that ever achieved a great artistic or popular success along those lines. And, perhaps most telling, T:2k is out of print, and has been, for a while (unless I missed it, which means it wasn't very successful if revived).

 

[Gary N. Mengle]

Originally posted by BruceB
To be explicit, I have ambitious plans for long-term campaign options in Gamma World, including multi-generational civilization building for those that would like to do that.

Hey now, if you're writing rules for that, it does interest me. I shall have to pay closer attention.

Gary, you're perfectly justified in having some skepticism. I do think there's a difference between games which tanked because of lack of audience and games which tanked for other reasons, and the evidence I have suggests to me that there is a sizable population of folks quite willing to buy Gamma World if it's offered to them. The multiple editions and general hoohah seem to be the result of TSR bungling rather than any innate failure of the games to find their audience.

Point taken.

And of course getting a small fraction of those old sales is meaningful in a way that getting a small fraction of the typical small-press niche game wouldn't be.

Perhaps it's my lack of sleep, but I'm having trouble figuring out what you're trying to say here.

I am quite sure, however, that there's no lasting market for a Road Warrior sort of game, and I can explain why. What do the PCs actually do? Drive around and shoot things? Scrounge fuel between bouts of driving? That's all covered by existing games, and it's not sustainable. There's no scope for what I'm calling these days "character significance". Even dungeon crawls have more lasting significance to the game world than that, by standard conventions, because cleared dungeons tend to stay cleared. I happen to have a real fondness for "guys in wasteland" stories and movies, but they're not very gamable - they're the stuff of a single short supplement for some existing game line.

I can see that point, put that way. The kind of game I expressed a preference for is easy to do with any system that's got a halfway decent combat system, since you don't need much else.

BTW, ColonelHardisson, T2K was very popular for a number of years, though it isn't exactly the kind of game I'd want. It died with GDW's collapse, but I would consider it a "successful" game.

It has never been revived. However, Far Future Enterprises plans to reprint the original materials over the next eighteen months or so, much like they've done with Classic Traveller.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

[BBTW, ColonelHardisson, T2K was very popular for a number of years, though it isn't exactly the kind of game I'd want. It died with GDW's collapse, but I would consider it a "successful" game.

[/B]

Note that I said besides T2k. And even it was never immensely popular, and it was dying before GDW went under. BTW, I have just about every sourcebook and adventure for the game. It was a good game, but the only successful one of its type.

 

[Lizard]

Bleak games of unchangeable environments don't sell very well, and when they do sell okay they don't get played much. It will be possible to do epic saga-style tragedy with my edition of Gamma World, if I do my job right, but that's a very different thing from the modern nihilistic drama of futility. And it won't be a common mode of play even if I supply good support for it; most folks will play with a vigorous mix of melodrama and sheer barbaric triumph over adversity. And that's okay with me.

This was one of the cool things about Aftermath, to my mind still the best serious post-holocaust system -- a lot of text in the rules was devoted to 'the promise'. (Not as much text as was devoted to different types of guns, but, hey, it was 1982!). 'The promise' was the theme of reconstruction, of rebuilding -- and I managed to get my gang of murderous sociopathic high school gaming buddies to buy into it. They seized an old shopping mall and used it as a power base, started making deals with surrounding enclaves, etc.

Hell, it's even the core of my current D&D campaign, in a way -- the PCs are rebuilding an abandoned area between a crumbling empire and an expanding young kingdom.

This is an incredible adventure seed, as you can motive players easily. "You need the doohicky of widget to improve your crops", "There's rumours of bandits to the north", "The ruler of blah demands an audience with you, deep in his territory", etc, etc, etc. You can keep 'em busy for years this way.