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<blockquote data-quote="Fenris-77" data-source="post: 7962237" data-attributes="member: 6993955">This issue is indeed why the creatures who are CE tend to be the ones that populate dungeons. It's very much outside real world ethical concerns at that point, as detailed above, and dragging those in is pretty much always an exercise in overwrought hand wringing and PHIL101 armchair philosophizing.You can indeed point to individuals of those races and say &quot;see, they aren't CE&quot; but that doesn't change the general ethical teleos of the game, or counter any arguments about the general CE nature of the race in question. Blaming the gods isn't a workable argument contra either. Are the Orcs and Goblins the ones raiding villages and eating people? Yup. Can they be positively identified as evil in the game mechanics? Yup. At that point trying to rationalize their behavior isn't a useful argument.To be fair, this is very setting and table dependent. Some settings handle sentient races differently, especially orcs and goblins, and that would change things a lot. Those are exceptions to the rule though, and a separate case from your bog standard D&amp;D milieu.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Fenris-77, post: 7962237, member: 6993955"] This issue is indeed why the creatures who are CE tend to be the ones that populate dungeons. It's very much outside real world ethical concerns at that point, as detailed above, and dragging those in is pretty much always an exercise in overwrought hand wringing and PHIL101 armchair philosophizing. You can indeed point to individuals of those races and say "see, they aren't CE" but that doesn't change the general ethical teleos of the game, or counter any arguments about the general CE nature of the race in question. Blaming the gods isn't a workable argument contra either. Are the Orcs and Goblins the ones raiding villages and eating people? Yup. Can they be positively identified as evil in the game mechanics? Yup. At that point trying to rationalize their behavior isn't a useful argument. To be fair, this is very setting and table dependent. Some settings handle sentient races differently, especially orcs and goblins, and that would change things a lot. Those are exceptions to the rule though, and a separate case from your bog standard D&D milieu. [/QUOTE]

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